One for the Thorster

[Dwight Gruber]

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...p?Item=9070683

[Navy]

Damn, that is one sad looking piece. Somebody oughtta' just give it a decent soldier's funeral and bury it.

Tom A.

[ViggoG]

Judging by the decrepit condition and asking price for this "Old Soldier". <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />
I'd say that some grave robber exhumed it and placed it on auction just for a few bucks. <img border="0" alt="[nono]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" />
Its a <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" /> shame to ask money for a poor old one such as this one is.
It should be allowed to RIP <img border="0" alt="[sleep]" title="" src="graemlins/sleep.gif" /> "Lets Toast an Old Soldiers Passing".
ViggoG <img border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" title="" src="graemlins/drink.gif" />

[lugerholsterrepair]

Cmon Guys, A little cold blue and it's out to the range! Jerry Burney

[Navy]

ViggoG,
My friend, I agree whole-heartedly. As a former combat infantryman, son of a combat infantryman and father of a combat infantryman, I believe very strongly in respect for our fallen, comrades and foes alike.

The poem from the slaughter in Flanders comes to mind, "Had we not met at some contested barricade..." was it Rupert Brooke? Robert Graves? (I am certain some Forum member will gently correct me on this as my poetry memory has given me an error message.)

In any event, Monday is American Memorial Day. It dates from just after the War Between the States, 1861-1865.

Contrary to contemporary American politically correct mythology, Memorial Day is not an occasion to have a neighborhood cookout and softball game on an off Monday, when the neighbors can, after loads of light beer and margaritas, sit around the fire holding hands and singing Kumbahya, while trying to attract or hit on someone else's partner of the occasion.

It is also not an occasion to wax long and philosophically about the "yet to be achieved goals of a diverse society" or similar such jackassery de jour.

Quite the contrary, it is a time to pause and honor those who had more gumption, more grit and more back bone. The time is to honor those who once, or repeatedly faced unspeakable horror and gruesome death, simply because they felt it was their duty.

Duty is not a word often used conversationally today. It seems to have been replaced with terms like "inclusiveness", whatever that might mean.

As you no doubt know, my friend, the reason for Memorial Day is to honor those who have paid the ultimate price and given their last drop of devotion so that reasoned dissent and argumentive discourse may flourish in the market place of ideas. Their duty has been done; their blood has not been in vain.

Today, more of humanity is free than in any time in man's sorry history. We very unselfishly shed American blood and spent American treasure by the billions to free 25 million people from the worst mass murderer in human history.

More people are living free and above the subsistence level than at in any time in the history of life on this planet. You can thank American G.I.s for that; no one else was involved until the heavy lifting was completed.

It now seems that every other shanty in every third world cesspool of a country (or tribe with a flag)has Bobbi Batista in the living room explaining current events from the Ted and Hanoi Jane perspective. Progress carries a high price!

No body ever said liberty was pretty. It is, however, an imperative for human survival.

None of this, for better or worse, could have happened without the selfless bravery and heroism of young Americans. They went from Bunker Hill (actually Breed's Hill)to Yorktown to the wholesale American slaughter of 1861-1865, to San Juan and on to Flanders, and to Omaha Beach (Thanks dad!)then to Inchon, to Hue, and now to Baghdad. They were willing to bear the awesome burden of ensuring that freedom would be their children's birthright. And many, many of them were lost in the pain and horror process that is Battlefield Violence, Chapter 1, Combat. I am absolutely certain I put into body bags better men than many who now sit in the House and Senate chambers.

I often wonder if the beneficiaries of this gift, purchased in blood and death, are aware of the value of what they seem to take for granted. I doubt I'll ever know.

So, on Monday, when your significant other absolutely *has* to hit Walmart for the special Memorial Day savings or you are running late to get to the barbeque or volleyball game, please, in memory of those who shed their blood for your right to pretty well do as little or as much as you wish for your fellow man, stop, or at least pause a second, and remember that were it not for those magnificent young men and women, your social calendar would be much less crowded; your belly and bank account much emptier.

And you probably would not be permitted to own a Luger unless it had be TACFOLEYIZED.

Tom A.

[Edward Tinker]

Tom and others, let me share how Memorial Day was brought home to me.

10 years ago I was stationed in the Netherlands, and where there are still over 8,303 fallen US soldiers, to include General Rose, who was killed by a sniper, if memory serves me correct. Here is an article I wrote 4 or 5 years ago:

The site of the only American cemetery in the Netherlands, is located just barely outside the little town of Margraten, where there lie 8,303 fallen soldiers from the European Theatre of World War II, buried on allied soil, kept in beautiful memory of those that fell for our freedom. My occupation as a Military Policeman for the US Army required me to support the cemetery in an official capacity every year, always the Sunday before Memorial Day. I attended meetings and made different coordination for people from the local area and in Germany to attend the ceremony. At the ceremony I kept the soldiers and Dutch Konilijk Marchaussee (Royal Marchaussee military police) informed and made sure that we had a good working relationship. This year, (4 or 5 years ago) I attended the event as a participant, instead of working as a Military Police Officer, and I was able to observe the entire event first hand. Last year, I re-enlisted for my last time in my military career on top of the tower in the middle of the cemetery. I took my oath of office 101 feet above the Court of Honor of missing soldiers. The cemetery and site means something to me; I feel a relationship to the World War II men and women that served our country, died and are buried there. The entire site is a combination of a documentary site, explaining the war and why the dead are there, and as an aesthetic site, purposely beautiful and tranquil.
The history of the cemetery started in mid-September 1944, when the U.S. First Army had captured Liege, Belgium, (approximately 22 miles from the town of Margraten), then reached the outskirts of Aachen, Germany and entered the city of Maastricht, the Netherlands. Maastricht is just down the road from Margraten, a short distance of six miles. This ancient road from Aachen to Maastricht was used by the Romans a thousand years ago and is a beautiful road with over hanging trees and fields. This road in 1944 was not traversed as easily as it is today. The Germans had started to strengthen their first line of Germany based defense; the Siegfried Line against the on-coming onslaught of the allies. The allies were temporarily stopped at the border of Germany. General Montgomery of the British led forces was able to convince General Eisenhower that a drive of men into the reaches of the Netherlands and over to Germany would break the German resolve.
This first major allied push became an airborne and land attack that became known as Operation Market Garden. A massive airborne and ground assault that was designed to circumvent the Siegfried Line and drive a wedge through and into the German home front. The attack was only marginally successful. Successful in making the German forces to loose large amounts of gas, men and equipment. Failed because it resulted in massive losses for the allies. Two cemeteries were eventually established to bury the dead and due to a political decision, it was decided that no U.S. service member would be buried on German soil; so several cemeteries had to be established around the periphery of the German border.
The first to be established was by the small town of Henri-Chapelle in Belgium. It received the majority of the bodies, but within a short period of time it had reached its capacity of taking bodies and a second cemetery was established to bury our dead. Margraten, near the German border was chosen and established by the 611th Quartermaster Graves Registration Company. (Shoman, preface).
Prior to 13 September 1944, the soldiers of the U.S. 30th Infantry Division of the First US Army liberated the land that would become the cemetery. The site chosen for this burial ground consisted of gentle rolling farm fields and orchards. Over 19,000 men and women were eventually buried at Margraten, taking up a much larger area then the present site that now occupies 65 �½ acres just off the road leading from Maastricht to Aachen. On 10 November 1944 the first bodies were buried and throughout the war, 19,307 men and women were originally buried in Margraten or other temporary cemeteries around the immediate region of the site. With the wide-ranging battles and many resulting deaths; by wars end; there were several hundred cemeteries throughout the European Theater of Operations.
Through the years of 1947 to 1954, the American Graves Registration Service contacted the next of kin and asked them what they would like done with their loved ones remains. Next of kin (NOK) were given the option of leaving the remains in their present location or being sent to their final resting-place where the NOK desired the body to rest, a decision that was final and was not reversible. Over 172,000 bodies from overseas were repatriated to be reburied in the United States, while the remaining personnel were permanently buried in military cemeteries on foreign soil. A note of interest is that these totals only include ground forces. Navy personnel, by custom are buried at sea, so those personnel killed or missing at sea are considered â??buriedâ?� at sea. In 1947, the Secretary of the Army and the American Battle Monuments Commission selected a total of fourteen sites in foreign countries as permanent cemeteries. Arrangements were made with each host government that the cemeteries would be granted in perpetuity, free of cost, rent and taxation. Any temporary cemeteries not selected to be permanent were turned back over to the local landowners. Those bodies not taken to the United States were consolidated into one of the cemeteries remaining, two in the area I live in are Henri-Chappel and Margraten.
In 1947 an American architect was selected to design each of the cemeteries, in the laying out of grave plots, chapels and museum areaâ??s. Each of the cemeteries required an incredible amount of work. Margraten had to have grading done to the landscape and all of the cemeteries had to have the installation of reinforced concrete beams to hold the headstones aligned and straight.
The fabrication of the headstones was made from white marble, with Christian crosses and Jewish Stars of David (Netherlands booklet, 21).
Buildings had to be built, to include two houses (the two U.S. based civilians as official caretakers), maintenance sheds for equipment, a Chapel, plantings in lines and around the cemetery, an erection of memorials, a visitors building and a flagpole.
Having been involved with Margraten on a personal and active role, I met and became friends with one of the civilians. His stories were not only interesting, but also informative. Each Memorial Day weekend, 16,004 flags are set up, two at each grave, since there are a total of 8,302 graves. The graves are divided into 16 plots, lettered from A to P, split by a wide central mall interwoven with grass paths. If people come to the site looking for a specific grave, the family or friends can be picked up from the town of Maastricht, escorted to the cemetery, taken directly to the grave and given any information the cemetery possesses. An example of how this took place was the last time I was at the cemetery. A man and his wife had come tot he cemetery without any prior notification to the staff. They arrived and no one was at the main reception desk. A sign stated that they would be back by 2:30 PM. I chatted with the couple; the manâ??s father had been killed when he was 1 �½ year old, in November 11th 1944. The manâ??s father was in their book, and they were taken to the gravesite. Relatives, who stated that his father had been with the 211th Artillery battalion, had told the man the information, but the cemetery had the father as being with the 117th Artillery Battalion. I tend to believe the cemetery, I have heard of the 117th, but not the 211th. Also, the man said that this was information that was second maybe even third hand. The cemetery had received their information from official archives, soon after the war ended and had been verified on several occasions.
All fifty states have bodies from their state buried at the site, along with the District of Columbia, soldiers from England, Canada and Mexico, (who were members of the US armed services), and 106 unknown soldiers. In 40 different instances there are two brothers who lay side by side and one gravestone marks the spot of the common grave of two unknowns. Males and even females lie in the cemetery. Nurses and other women attached or belonging to the armed forces died and were buried at there. There are six Medal of Honor winners, to include one of the latest to be recognized, an African-American just recently recognized as an awardee of the Medal. Up until 1993 there were 8,301 graves, but a World War II Army Air Force body, a Lieutenant, killed in the war, was discovered in a field and subsequently buried at Margraten. As stated previously, officially there are only two types of headstones, a Cross or a Star of David, those of the Muslim faith are not presently recognized with a crescent, but there has been talk of doing this in later years.
The entire cemetery is composed of the grave plot area, a small visitorâ??s center, with a battle map of the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany that depicts the major battles fought in the region. Also built was a Court of Honor, Tower, Chapel and huge areas of plantings that line the mall area and over and around the entire 64-�½ acres of the cemetery.
At the visitorsâ?? center is a sign-in book, free pamphlets in English, Dutch, German and French. The pamphlets are a simple one-page sheet with basic information of the origins of the cemetery and a quick overview of the battles that brought so many people to be buried at the site. There is no cost for the sheet and if you ask at the main desk they will give you a 32-page booklet that explains in detail the entire history of the site. Another booklet available is the American Memorials and Overseas Military Cemeteries booklet that briefly discusses all the sites the American Battlefield Commission oversees outside of the continental United States. A total 8 WW I and 14 WW II cemeteries.
Personnel at the cemetery are helpful and have all the graves and information on the personnel in a computerized database. By providing a name or serial number, they can tell you the exact location of the person in the cemetery, plot, row and grave number. All the names of the 1,722 people missing or lost at sea are inscribed on the Walls of the Missing. These are soldiers or airmen that their bodies were never found in the area of operations that Margraten covers.
Inside the chapel is a large candelabra and flower bowl presented by the Government of the Netherlands and the local provincial administration to show their concern and love for the fallen soldiers and airmen on the site.
Each of the American cemeteries overseas has something unique and special that makes them separate from the other cemeteries. Margraten American Cemetery has itâ??s own statue, entitled, â??The Mourning Womanâ?�.
She stands with a broken tree stump to her right, a small living branch growing out and away. She stands, sad and lonely, three doves flying from her right shoulder, (Netherlands booklet, 24). My impression of this statue is one of sadness, but happiness at the signs of peace of the end of the war. It is a larger than life statue and lies at the end of a 60 foot pond of water. She stands just before the tall tower that overlooks the memorial and graves, bringing remembrance to the cemetery for her visitors.
I have two older Dutch friends, Walter Jaeger and his wife Annie that lived and was present during the German occupation of 1940-1945. Walter was in the Dutch Resistance, then served with the US Army during the months Margraten was formed. Memorial Day, May 1945, has become an important day for many Dutch, an on the 1st Memorial Day after the wars end, Walter and his wife Annie attended. They have attended literally every ceremony since that time. A custom was quickly established that the local people would adopt a grave, placing flowers and remembrances by the headstone. Walter and Annie adopted two graves at the very beginning of their visits and when their soldiers went back to America to be buried at the site of their loved ones, they requested and later received two other graves for them to visit and leave flowers. Dutch citizens have adopted all of the 8,302 graves at Margraten and both young and old people can be seen during the Memorial Day ceremony every year paying their respects to the young men and women that gave their lives for freedom.
The entire facility is supported monetarily by the American government for its employees and itâ??s upkeep. Over the years the cemetery has lost several employee positions due to cuts and cutbacks of funds, but through this the maintenance of the site has been outstanding. All year the site displays a solemnity and beauty hard to match, grass is mowed several times a week; new plants are planted, old trees pruned and the site kept spotless. The cemetery does not allow picnics and playing and few would try, it is truly a nice memorial to those fallen soldiers.

[livingthepast]

I agree 100% about Memorial Day. Excellent posts! BTW, I live fairly close to this guy and was wondering about making him an offer on it since it didn't sell. What is your experts opinion on a fair price to offer so that I could offer this fallen soldier a proper home?
Thanks,
Brian

[Dwight Gruber]

The magazine would probably cost you on the order of $75 to just buy it. You could probably turn the rear sight for $150. The grip screws -might- be worth $15 for the pair. If it has a good locking bolt spring, that is probably worth $35. It looks like the rest of the gun is truly valueless.

--Dwight

[John Sabato]

I would venture to say that as ugly as this beast is...if you lube it and trade firing pins that it will still be a good shooter...

The seller says that it disassembles okay... but it won't fire. Some past owner has probably broken the firing pin tip off... The exterior may be pitted, but as long as it hasn't been in a fire... the steel should still be structurally sound...

So it's ugly... so what? It is still an original artillery and would make not only a great wallhanger... but a wallhanger that shoots!

You can even legally hang a reproduction Artillery Stock on it...

If I had the money... I'd buy it to save wear and tear on my own Artillery...

[livingthepast]

Well too late. Gun was sold over the phone to "some guy in california". The dealer said the bore was amazingly clean and sharp compared to the outside. Oh well, another one I waited too long for.