Karl Kankel 1938 S/42

Thor · 08-16-2004, 09:32 AM

Karl asked me to post these two pictures for him. I think he will follow this post to ask his questions about his Luger. Thanks! Click on the thumbnail pictures for larger versions of the same picture.
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB1.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB1.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB2.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB2.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

John Sabato · 08-16-2004, 09:58 AM

The inletted design in the right grip appears to be non-original and was sourced from a Hitler Youth Knife...

If this was an original design that was issued this way, I am sure that the craftsman would have taken enough pains to make sure that the design fit neatly into the checkering angle... this device was added at a later time, and the angles of the diamond do not match the grips.

Rider06 · 08-16-2004, 10:09 AM

Thanks, John!
Thor had mentioned that the emblem was an after-market attempt to make the Luger looked "personalized". It's interesting to find out the emblem came from a Hitler Youth knife, though.

This gun is not a "war trophy" or anything. My father bought it from a gentlemen for about $400 twenty years ago - we just didn't know any information on it until I stumbled across this website and began to learn about the history of Lugers.

The best part of the gun is that all SERNO's match - "4536" - to include both clips. The inside of the pistol grips are even stamped with "36", as all of the other parts do as well. Thor tells me that the holster is not original issue - or is a "police version". I have more pics, but I'm "technologically challenged" when it comes to posting them on the website.

Thanks again for all of your help and insight. What a great community!!!

Regards,
Karl

Thor · 08-16-2004, 10:14 AM

Karl, you can send me the pictures and I will gladly post them for you! Make sure you get a good closeup of the serial number on the frame and any letter suffix that is under it.

Rider06 · 08-16-2004, 10:37 AM

Thanks, Thor!
Will do. It will have to wait until this evening, though... My pics are at home, and I'm at work. Oops... did I just say that? ha ha!
-Karl

John Sabato · 08-16-2004, 02:20 PM

karl, to be sure... the design may have come from a reproduction hitler youth knife... I don't believe it adds anything to the value of the gun... and because the original numbered grips have been modified to accept the emblem, the gun has reduced in value... sorry.

but it is still a NICE Luger...

Rider06 · 08-16-2004, 04:34 PM

Great feedback, John - Thanks!
I understand that the emblem de-values the gun, but I'm not too worried with it's monetary value -as I have no intention of selling. I'm more interested in the history of the Luger, and this website has been a fantastic resource!

Thanks again... I hope to get more (and better quality) pics to Thor so he can post them for me.

I'll include a couple of pics of the holster as well, since it is not an "issued" holster, I'm curious to see what it's origin might be.

Thor · 08-16-2004, 08:39 PM

More pictures from Karl!
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB3.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB3.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB4.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB4.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB5.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB5.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB6.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB6.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB7.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB7.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Ron Wood · 08-16-2004, 10:57 PM

I do not claim to have any knowledge of these later Lugers, but it sure looks good to me. I am particularly intrigued by the holster and would like to see more pics of it. Even without more pics, I will give you 20 bucks for it!

G.W. Gill · 08-17-2004, 12:16 AM

Wow!, I threw my hands up at the last picture!

Ron Smith · 08-17-2004, 09:12 AM

Karl, Nice pistol! Good clean piece. I too would be interested in more photos and info on the holster. And I could beat Ron's bid by a couple of bucks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
Other Ron

Rider06 · 08-17-2004, 09:27 AM

I have a couple of pics of the holster by itself at home, and will get them on here tonight. I don't know much about the holster other than on the inside flap there is a faint "stamp" that (I believe) says "1917". But I can barely read it, so I'm not sure.

Geez... $22 bucks? How can I turn that down! ha ha ha!

Ron Smith · 08-17-2004, 10:50 AM

I would go $25, but I need bus fare to get to my therapy session.

Herb · 08-17-2004, 03:58 PM

John, it surely is a HJ emblem but not necessarily from an HJ knife it might be one of the HJ lapel pins
http://www.epier.com/BiddingForm.asp?876325
A little known fact: The HJ knife without the HJ emblem is identical to the American Boy Scout knife.

Thor · 08-17-2004, 08:06 PM

Here are two holster pictures from Karl.
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB8.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB8.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB9.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB9.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Rider06 · 09-08-2004, 10:19 PM

Anybody have any ideas on the holster?
-Karl

kaschi · 09-10-2004, 11:37 PM

This is my first post since I became a member
at John's recommendation when he saw my post today at the P.38 forum. I just bought an S/42 today and one of the mags has the ser#
4619 which is not far off from Karl's. I know very little about Lugers so I'm willing to learn! Thanks for accepting me as member! Kaschi(aka Richard Deutschlehrer at the P.38 forum.

08-16-2004, 09:32 AM	#1
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Karl Kankel 1938 S/42 Karl asked me to post these two pictures for him. I think he will follow this post to ask his questions about his Luger. Thanks! Click on the thumbnail pictures for larger versions of the same picture. <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB1.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB1.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB2.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB2.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

08-16-2004, 09:58 AM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	The inletted design in the right grip appears to be non-original and was sourced from a Hitler Youth Knife... If this was an original design that was issued this way, I am sure that the craftsman would have taken enough pains to make sure that the design fit neatly into the checkering angle... this device was added at a later time, and the angles of the diamond do not match the grips. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-16-2004, 10:14 AM	#4
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Karl, you can send me the pictures and I will gladly post them for you! Make sure you get a good closeup of the serial number on the frame and any letter suffix that is under it. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

08-16-2004, 02:20 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	karl, to be sure... the design may have come from a reproduction hitler youth knife... I don't believe it adds anything to the value of the gun... and because the original numbered grips have been modified to accept the emblem, the gun has reduced in value... sorry. but it is still a NICE Luger... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-16-2004, 08:39 PM	#8
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	More pictures from Karl! <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB3.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB3.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB4.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB4.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB5.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB5.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB6.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB6.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB7.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB7.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

08-16-2004, 10:09 AM	#3
Rider06 User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Lakeville, MN Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks, John! Thor had mentioned that the emblem was an after-market attempt to make the Luger looked "personalized". It's interesting to find out the emblem came from a Hitler Youth knife, though. This gun is not a "war trophy" or anything. My father bought it from a gentlemen for about $400 twenty years ago - we just didn't know any information on it until I stumbled across this website and began to learn about the history of Lugers. The best part of the gun is that all SERNO's match - "4536" - to include both clips. The inside of the pistol grips are even stamped with "36", as all of the other parts do as well. Thor tells me that the holster is not original issue - or is a "police version". I have more pics, but I'm "technologically challenged" when it comes to posting them on the website. Thanks again for all of your help and insight. What a great community!!! Regards, Karl

08-16-2004, 10:37 AM	#5
Rider06 User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Lakeville, MN Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks, Thor! Will do. It will have to wait until this evening, though... My pics are at home, and I'm at work. Oops... did I just say that? ha ha! -Karl

08-16-2004, 04:34 PM	#7
Rider06 User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Lakeville, MN Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Great feedback, John - Thanks! I understand that the emblem de-values the gun, but I'm not too worried with it's monetary value -as I have no intention of selling. I'm more interested in the history of the Luger, and this website has been a fantastic resource! Thanks again... I hope to get more (and better quality) pics to Thor so he can post them for me. I'll include a couple of pics of the holster as well, since it is not an "issued" holster, I'm curious to see what it's origin might be.

08-16-2004, 10:57 PM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	I do not claim to have any knowledge of these later Lugers, but it sure looks good to me. I am particularly intrigued by the holster and would like to see more pics of it. Even without more pics, I will give you 20 bucks for it! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-17-2004, 12:16 AM	#10
G.W. Gill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeastern USA Posts: 369 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wow!, I threw my hands up at the last picture!

08-17-2004, 09:12 AM	#11
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Karl, Nice pistol! Good clean piece. I too would be interested in more photos and info on the holster. And I could beat Ron's bid by a couple of bucks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Other Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

08-17-2004, 09:27 AM	#12
Rider06 User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Lakeville, MN Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have a couple of pics of the holster by itself at home, and will get them on here tonight. I don't know much about the holster other than on the inside flap there is a faint "stamp" that (I believe) says "1917". But I can barely read it, so I'm not sure. Geez... $22 bucks? How can I turn that down! ha ha ha!

08-17-2004, 10:50 AM	#13
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	I would go $25, but I need bus fare to get to my therapy session. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

08-17-2004, 03:58 PM	#14
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	John, it surely is a HJ emblem but not necessarily from an HJ knife it might be one of the HJ lapel pins http://www.epier.com/BiddingForm.asp?876325 A little known fact: The HJ knife without the HJ emblem is identical to the American Boy Scout knife. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

08-17-2004, 08:06 PM	#15
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Here are two holster pictures from Karl. <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB8.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB8.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB9.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/KKankelB9.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

09-08-2004, 10:19 PM	#16
Rider06 User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Lakeville, MN Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Anybody have any ideas on the holster? -Karl

09-10-2004, 11:37 PM	#17
kaschi New User Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	This is my first post since I became a member at John's recommendation when he saw my post today at the P.38 forum. I just bought an S/42 today and one of the mags has the ser# 4619 which is not far off from Karl's. I know very little about Lugers so I'm willing to learn! Thanks for accepting me as member! Kaschi(aka Richard Deutschlehrer at the P.38 forum.