Revisions-Commission

dittamedia · 08-30-2004, 10:23 AM

Just looked at Dwight Gruber's great post on his double-stamp luger. My 1918 Erfurt #7240 is a single-stamp, but resembles Dwight's in the multiple Revisions-Commission stamps, and in having no suffix to the serial number. It too has matching numbers, grips included. I initially thought that, as with other military weapons, that the RC stamps meant that the pistol had been checked out some time after manufacture and use before re-issue. It seems to me now that the stamps could indicate a late war weapon of less than acceptable construction. Does that mean that my Luger is not safe to shoot?

Dwight Gruber · 08-30-2004, 11:41 AM

The Revisions-Commission was an inspection office in the DWM and Erfurt manufacturing plant.

P-08 were inspected constantly during their manufacture by Inspectors assigned by the Spandau government arsenal. The Inspectors' stamps (noteable on Erfurt pistols, noteworthy by their absence on DWM guns) were the Inspector's personal guarantee that the part met the applicable standard.

Occasionally a part would be 'out of tolerance' in some fashion, not badly enough to be rejected but questionable--a size or fit problem, hardness of some non-critical part, etc. These parts would be taken before the Revisions-Commission which would determine the part's "go/no-go" status. Parts which were deemed suitable for use would be stamped by the applicable inspector, and also given the crown/RC Revisions-Commission stamp affirming the part's usability.

The practical effect of this stamp was to absolve the Inspector of responsibility in case the part subsequently failed in use.

The c/RC stamp has no bearing on the time of the particular gun's production. It has nothing to do with reissue or rework. It could be said that it represents the limit of acceptable construction. It warrants that the pistol so marked is (or was) "safe to shoot" in its year of manufacture, but as in the case of all decades-old firearms one would do well to have it checked out by a knowledgable gunsmith before firing it.

--Dwight

Silvereagle29 · 09-07-2004, 01:06 PM

One more thought to Dwights comments.
The Crown RC is mostly found on Erfurt Lugers and very seldom on DWM pistols. The reason being is that DWM had a commercial outlet. It was only a matter of sending "out of tolerance" parts to the commercial production where there was no Military inspectors and away it went. Probably the same with Mauser, the WaA rejected parts became Banner parts.

Herb · 09-07-2004, 01:21 PM

A little more info, though conflicting with Dwight's post, taken from Costanzo--(The crown RC is the) Erfurt Imperial Arsenal rework, repair and reissue proof found on Lugers brought back from the front lines. This proof was used from 1910 through 1918 and is usually found on the right reciever and top of barrel but may also be noted on any Luger part. Locations noted: left side and top of barrel, grip screws, front trugger guard.

Dwight Gruber · 09-07-2004, 05:29 PM

Herb,

This is one of those cases where Costanzo is in error. I can't cite the reference right now (I'm at work) but iirc Joachim GÃ?Â¶rtz published a translation of the actual function of the Commission in AutoMag some years ago.

--Dwight

Vlim · 09-07-2004, 05:56 PM

Hi,

Dwight is right. Goertz also quotes the commission description in his book 'Die Pistole 08'

A rough translation:

"If there is doubt about the functionality or acceptance of a piece, or if the given piece's size is smaller than the tolerances for that piece, in order to prevent a shorter lifespan or problems with cooperation with other parts, the piece is to be presented to the 'Waffenoberrevisor'. If the piece is subsequently accepted in the name of the 'Verwaltungsdirektor' it must contain both the stamp of the acceptant and the 'RC' stamp, to safeguard the acceptant from possible future liabilities."

It is not a repair or rework proof. It just signifies that the part has been accepted after the acceptant noticed that acceptance tolerances were not met, had the part checked by his boss, who approved acceptance.

08-30-2004, 10:23 AM	#1
dittamedia User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Northern California Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Revisions-Commission Just looked at Dwight Gruber's great post on his double-stamp luger. My 1918 Erfurt #7240 is a single-stamp, but resembles Dwight's in the multiple Revisions-Commission stamps, and in having no suffix to the serial number. It too has matching numbers, grips included. I initially thought that, as with other military weapons, that the RC stamps meant that the pistol had been checked out some time after manufacture and use before re-issue. It seems to me now that the stamps could indicate a late war weapon of less than acceptable construction. Does that mean that my Luger is not safe to shoot?

09-07-2004, 01:21 PM	#4
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	A little more info, though conflicting with Dwight's post, taken from Costanzo--(The crown RC is the) Erfurt Imperial Arsenal rework, repair and reissue proof found on Lugers brought back from the front lines. This proof was used from 1910 through 1918 and is usually found on the right reciever and top of barrel but may also be noted on any Luger part. Locations noted: left side and top of barrel, grip screws, front trugger guard. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

08-30-2004, 11:41 AM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	The Revisions-Commission was an inspection office in the DWM and Erfurt manufacturing plant. P-08 were inspected constantly during their manufacture by Inspectors assigned by the Spandau government arsenal. The Inspectors' stamps (noteable on Erfurt pistols, noteworthy by their absence on DWM guns) were the Inspector's personal guarantee that the part met the applicable standard. Occasionally a part would be 'out of tolerance' in some fashion, not badly enough to be rejected but questionable--a size or fit problem, hardness of some non-critical part, etc. These parts would be taken before the Revisions-Commission which would determine the part's "go/no-go" status. Parts which were deemed suitable for use would be stamped by the applicable inspector, and also given the crown/RC Revisions-Commission stamp affirming the part's usability. The practical effect of this stamp was to absolve the Inspector of responsibility in case the part subsequently failed in use. The c/RC stamp has no bearing on the time of the particular gun's production. It has nothing to do with reissue or rework. It could be said that it represents the limit of acceptable construction. It warrants that the pistol so marked is (or was) "safe to shoot" in its year of manufacture, but as in the case of all decades-old firearms one would do well to have it checked out by a knowledgable gunsmith before firing it. --Dwight

09-07-2004, 01:06 PM	#3
Silvereagle29 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 105 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	One more thought to Dwights comments. The Crown RC is mostly found on Erfurt Lugers and very seldom on DWM pistols. The reason being is that DWM had a commercial outlet. It was only a matter of sending "out of tolerance" parts to the commercial production where there was no Military inspectors and away it went. Probably the same with Mauser, the WaA rejected parts became Banner parts.

09-07-2004, 05:29 PM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Herb, This is one of those cases where Costanzo is in error. I can't cite the reference right now (I'm at work) but iirc Joachim GÃ?Â¶rtz published a translation of the actual function of the Commission in AutoMag some years ago. --Dwight

09-07-2004, 05:56 PM	#6
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,042 Thanks: 1,032 Thanked 3,920 Times in 1,193 Posts	Hi, Dwight is right. Goertz also quotes the commission description in his book 'Die Pistole 08' A rough translation: "If there is doubt about the functionality or acceptance of a piece, or if the given piece's size is smaller than the tolerances for that piece, in order to prevent a shorter lifespan or problems with cooperation with other parts, the piece is to be presented to the 'Waffenoberrevisor'. If the piece is subsequently accepted in the name of the 'Verwaltungsdirektor' it must contain both the stamp of the acceptant and the 'RC' stamp, to safeguard the acceptant from possible future liabilities." It is not a repair or rework proof. It just signifies that the part has been accepted after the acceptant noticed that acceptance tolerances were not met, had the part checked by his boss, who approved acceptance.