first luger, going over the markings

[JethroGhostlight]

Hello this is my first time on the forum, so I hope this is in the right place. This is also my first Luger.

I bought a mismatch DWM from Cabelas ($1244.00), and when I got home I was going over the markings to see what they mean. Based of No. 33 and 31 on the markings page, I think it might actually be a reworked police Simson.

I'm looking for another opinion, and is it a coincidence that the replaced toggle and bolt number 33 is also on the front of the grip?

[JethroGhostlight]

I forgot to upload this picture of the front of the grip.

[mrerick]

Hi Brice, and welcome to the forum.

It looks like you have a mixed DWM Luger with a Weimar era receiver and a frame that was in Weimar police service in Frankfurt. The "33" has nothing to do with Simson. It is related (if anything) to the weapon number in the police inventory. The dies do not look factory.

It is possible that it was a Simson rework of a DWM for the police, but the inspection marks are early Weimar "dove" markings.

Is there a "1921" date on the receiver chamber?

"7392a" is the gun's serial number, but the dies on the front of the frame do not look factory, and it may have been renumbered.

Take a look at our FAQ document... You'll find it interesting.

Rather than a coincidence, it's possible that the person finding a "33" marked toggle train installed it from a stock of parts to look "more matching"... The breech block has an imperial eagle proof mark.

Marc

[JethroGhostlight]

Some miscellaneous questions.

Whats this mark on the sear?

[JethroGhostlight]

I didn't include these in the original post, but it also came with 2 magazines and a holster. The mags have no marks. The holster one stamp and since the date is 1939 I assume a past owner purchased it separately.

I'm also just wanting to make sure this is just a shooter before I use it.

[mrerick]

To a collector, "matching" means that the pistol left the factory with all the original parts presently on the pistol. This is not the case for your Luger since marks reflect different eras.

It is a shooter, and if mechanically sound you should shoot it to your heart's content.

Stick to standard velocity ammunition and don't store the metal within the holster.

I'm not sure of the mark on your sear bar. Is it a crown over letter? If so it could be Erfurt.

[Don M]

I agree with Marc that the toggle train has been replaced, perhaps with the misguided intention of creating a "match" with the police inventory #33. The rig, however, is quite interesting. If the gun does have a 1921 chamber date, it was manufactured by DWM in that year as a 9-mm P08. The barrel appears to have a Dove/ArA4 stamp, so it is probably original to the gun. I'm not sure what the stamp on the sear bar is. I do not think the gun has been reworked except for the replacement of the toggle train.

The police property marking on the front grip strap is that of the Schutzpolizei of the district of Frankfurt an der Oder (not Frankfurt am Main) and is very rare. It appears to have had the command (Roman numeral) and Hundertschaft (Company) designations ground off. This is consistent with the history of the Schupo in the Frankfurt (O) district (HWIS, p. 151) which was reduced from three commands stationed in Frankfurt, Cottbus and Landsberg in the early 1920s to a single command in Cottbus by 1928. Removal of the command and Hundertschaft designations would have been consistent with the revised marking instructions issued in 1932. The apparent lack of a sear or mag safety is consistent with the fact that Schupo in Cottbus were barracked Bereitschaftspoliizei that were transferred to the military in 1934-5.

The 1939 military-style holster was manufactured in Cottbus, further supporting the above interpretation and strongly suggesting that it was used with this pistol from 1939. It probably replaced an older police-style holster.

While I suppose it would not be catastrophic if a part was broken as a result of shooting it, this rig has a rather unique story to tell. Please keep the gun and holster together.

[JethroGhostlight]

Thanks everyone for all the information, this stuff is fascinating!

And I forgot to post the photo, but yes it is marked 1921.
When I get off work I'll take some pic of the whole gun to post.

[Geo99]

The unmarked magazines are commercial. If original, the wood base one would be early Imperial, the other is a later one, likely made by Mauser - or the bottoms could be newer replacements - hard to tell from the picture.

That looks like a very nice holster.
Considering the accessories you got with it, I don't think you did too bad.

- Geo

[Eugen]

Jethro, welcome to the forum and to the hobby . Based on the generous information that other members revealed about your Luger you have a very fascinating right. I am sure you will enjoy it.

[JethroGhostlight]

Here's the rest of the pictures, plus a couple more marks.

I think maybe its been cleaned with a brush at some point, because there's very little rust.

[Edward Tinker]

Almost all 'hidden' markings, i.e. those under grips, under the receiver, inside of the gun (not on small parts) are worker markings (see FAQ) and mean nothing to us at this time, but are not decipherable to collectors.

I think by itself you paid too much for a shooter, but as said above, the extra magazine is likely a $100 minimum, the holster another $200 minimum - the tool $80-$120, but I'd like to see a good picture of the markings. As it looks like an eagle 63, but nice to know if it is.

Welcome and you did fine.

Ed

[JethroGhostlight]

This is the best I can get with my phone.