Regarding Flaking~

[cirelaw]

I sometimes come across this term while describing a gun. What is it? What causes it? Where is it most likely to appear? How much can it detrack for the value of a gun? Can anything be done to mitigate its' appearance? ~~The same for pitting~ Only the barrel?

[kurusu]

Generally in a nickeled gun. The nickel finish has a tendency to flake of as it ages or is improperly cared.

How much will detract from value? Depends on your urge to get that specific gun.

The cure is to refinish.

[cirelaw]

I am referring mainly to lugers. Refinish would be my last resort. Luger Plastic Surgery~

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by cirelaw

I am referring mainly to lugers. Refinish would be my last resort. Luger Plastic Surgery~

Lugers original finish is blued. Bluing doesn't flake.

If it's nickeled it has already been refinished.

[Caferacer]

Some Luger owners are kind of flaky

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by Caferacer

Some Luger owners are kind of flaky

As far as that goes, Luger owners can "be" just about anything else. There is quite a mix here--political, religious (or not), economic, vocational, degrees of experience, and age differences abound. And, yes, one gentleman, a fine and enthusiastic member, is a professional belly-dancer. I agree that some Luger owners may be flaky or irresponsible, but I think we would take all that in stride if at all possible. There certainly seems to be room for everything else!

Other forums can have massive infighting, flame wars, and just downright nasty stuff going on. One great thing about this forum is that we concentrate on what brings us together--our love of the Pistole Parabellum--and not on the things that divide us and drive us apart.

[Sergio Natali]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

As far as that goes, Luger owners can "be" just about anything else. There is quite a mix here--political, religious (or not), economic, vocational, degrees of experience, and age differences abound. And, yes, one gentleman, a fine and enthusiastic member, is a professional belly-dancer. I agree that some Luger owners may be flaky or irresponsible, but I think we would take all that in stride if at all possible. There certainly seems to be room for everything else!

Other forums can have massive infighting, flame wars, and just downright nasty stuff going on. One great thing about this forum is that we concentrate on what brings us together--our love of the Pistole Parabellum--and not on the things that divide us and drive us apart.

I totally agree with David, of course here we are talking about people who share a common interest for a pistol generally considered a bit "special", although most of us have interests also in other firearms like 1911s (me), or Nambus, or rifles.

[John Sabato]

David and Sergio---Well said!

[cirelaw]

It is truly an honor and privilege to be a part of our family! My safe space~

[sheepherder]

I recall a couple threads here about the blue finish 'flaking'. It seems to refer to irregularly shaped areas where the bluing has disappeared. A Search turned up three pages where 'flaking' appears in the threads. Some refer to the bluing -

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=34026&

[Eugen]

As a noob, I am glad to hear some of the terms explained that I encounter in my readings. Check on the flaking thing, I've got that figured out. Well, sort of.

It took me a while to eventually figure what the heck "straw" meant. Now I've moved on to "frost in the barrel". What's dat?

[guns3545]

Originally Posted by Eugen

As a noob, I am glad to hear some of the terms explained that I encounter in my readings. Check on the flaking thing, I've got that figured out. Well, sort of.

It took me a while to eventually figure what the heck "straw" meant. Now I've moved on to "frost in the barrel". What's dat?

Eugene,

I cannot give you a metallurgical answer but I can tell you why it occurs.

In early days, i.e. prior to the 50's, all military ammunition used mercury fulminate based primers which is very corrosive. BTW, the US Armed forces were still using corrosive WWII ammunition into the early 60s.

In order to neutralize the mercury, barrels were cleaned with swabs dipped in ammonia. However the ammonia itself can cause a chemical reaction with the metal so you needed to get it out almost immediately. So, most time, you used soapy water to neutralize the ammonia and clean out the barrel.

Then, you dried and lubricated your weapon with whatever oil or lubricant was issued to you.

NOW, if you did not get out the ammonia. it caused "frosting", i.e. a light mildly corrosive film in the bore. A whitish film like the frost.

Now, frosting is not that bad. Doesn't eat away the lands and grooves like true corrosion from the mercury, but it is a sign of improper cleaning and maintenance of the weapon.

AND to Eric:

Pitting, which is severe; and freckling, i.e. tiny dots of corrosion, occurs around the muzzle, the bore itself and the breechblock, is typically caused by the action of the corrosive primer; again, when the weapon is not properly maintained. The mercury literally eats away the finish and metal if it is not removed, neutralized and lubricated. Pitting on wide spread external surfaces can also be caused by improper storage, blood and other acidic actions. As always improper care is the culprit.

WARNING!! Pitting, especially severe, unlike frosting, can cause damage to barrel, making it unsafe and be a hazard to most human beings who tend to be susceptible to coming in contact with hot flying metal particles, like exploding barrels.

Hope this helps.

John

[cirelaw]

Thank You John, an excellent explanation on an important subject!! Were the Germans issued individual luger cleaning kits like the Swiss? It amazes me that any of the early military lugers even survived!!

[guns3545]

Originally Posted by cirelaw

Thank You John, an excellent explanation on an important subject!! Were the Germans issued individual luger cleaning kits like the Swiss?

Eric,

Sorry! Don't have much experience with foreign powers cleaning techniques and equipment.

Maybe others can chime in.

John

[CJS57]

Flaking as used by Winchester and Colt and S&W collectors refers to the blue simply peeling or flaking off like an old paint job. In those guns it happens on a Carbonia blue that is a heat process of bluing. Lugers normally were rust blued or dip blued and those types do not flake. The area below the hammer of the Winchester pictured is classic flaking. The receiver is totally flaked everywhere else! Incredibly the metal remains smooth as glass to the touch.
[IMG][/IMG]

[Eugen]

CJS57, thank you for demonstrating that "a picture is worth a thousand words". That's a great example to explain that term.

[Olle]

Originally Posted by CJS57

Flaking as used by Winchester and Colt and S&W collectors refers to the blue simply peeling or flaking off like an old paint job. In those guns it happens on a Carbonia blue that is a heat process of bluing. Lugers normally were rust blued or dip blued and those types do not flake. The area below the hammer of the Winchester pictured is classic flaking. The receiver is totally flaked everywhere else! Incredibly the metal remains smooth as glass to the touch.

That's very interesting... I have seen the same type of aging on carbon blued Colt pistols, and assumed that this type of bluing doesn't bond to the metal and "become part of it" like rust bluing and modern caustic bluing. I actually mentioned this on the Colt forum a while back, but the "experts" there said that it can't flake off. This is what sets this forum apart from other forums: Practical experience and knowledge, instead of people just "stating their opinions".