Lugerforum Patches on eBay

[John Sabato]

It appears that the company who produced the original order of Lugerforum Patches has decided that they are going into the retail sales business and will sell the patches that they have produced for others... including ours.

Here is the photo of our original patch:



They currently have one reproduction of our original design Lugerforum patches for auction on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=7303

If you check their other auctions, you will find that they are auctioning lots of different designs... I expect we will see the Lugerforum patch offered on a continuing basis...

The question I pose to the forum is: Since this patch was a custom order by the forum, does the manufacturer have the right to sell them without some kind of compensation to the forum for it's design?

Any lawyers out there?

[Edward Tinker]

Not a lawyer, I would think that unless their order form stated that the design was now theirs, they have no legal right to reproduce it for sale.

Ed

[Dok]

I would suggest that somewhere on the Luger Forum there must be some wording that says all images Copyright �© Luger Forum.

In any event this was a custom job, bought and paid for by eight of us back in 2000 as I recall. At no time did we get any monetary break because we gave him the right to sell this item later.

I would suggest we write a polite letter saying that we own the copyright to this patch, and for them to sell it would be a copyright infrigement, and we'd have to get our lawyers to respond accordingly. However if they would like to give us a small percentageof the proceeds we would give them the license to sell these.

None of us ever got our original investment back (not that that was any big deal) but to now have somebody else profitting off them kinda rubs me the wrong way.

Having said that, just how many of these are likely to sell on his or any other site....

Mein zwei Cents Wert,

Dok

[CG of MP]

Does the fact that the company is making them to sell on Ebay mean that they are available to you guys as well? If so I'd like to get one...

I will not however support their alleged intellectual theft by placing a bid on e-bay.

Anyway do the powers that be here now have access to the patches again?

Charles

[John Sabato]

Charles,

The patches were a custom order from a company that produces embroidered patches. Since the initial order of patches are now gone, the only way I know to get more is to place an order of at least 100. Polls of the membership have not yet generated that level of purchase interest.

So far the consensus of members responding to me here and via private message and email say that we should voice our objection to their sale of our design without compensation, but I haven't heard from John D. yet... I look forward to his input on this situation. In the meantime, If any member is a practicing attorney... how about some free educated advice on the options the forum has in this circumstance? Any lawyers who have copyright experience listening out there?

[John Sabato]

While this thread has posed an interesting question that still must be answered... I have some update info.

I queried the seller and this was the answer to my question about how many patches were available for purchase:

Subject: Re: Question for seller -- Item #3651902061

One--the one that"s listed now.

So now it appears that the shop that made our patches has sold off, or tossed out some of their samples and this seller acquired them and is selling them on eBay... so the appearance of more of these seems unlikely...

...that being the case, anyone who wants the one patch that is available on eBay... Bid Away! and good luck.

OTOH, I learned this afternoon that one of my professional colleagues has a daughter-in-law that IS a copyright lawyer and he volunteered to ask her the questions we have posed and get us a legal opinion about what rights the forum has about someone selling our patches for profit... and the legal advice will be at no charge

As soon as he has a reply, I will post the answer.

[Edward Tinker]

I think there is a big differnce in selling a one or two item, then in making more to sell. This is like me buying several of Datig's books, and then re-seliing them later and making a profit.

Ed

[Heinz]

Ed, I think I missed your point?

[John D.]

Maybe I'm missing the point to this thread???

Honestly - these are probably a few "seconds" - that were mixed in with dozens of others patches from other organizations? I don't think that they can make a "business" from selling "LugerForum" patches - hell's bells, we couldn't make enough money from the Forum to even cover the original design setup - even selling them within the LugerForum itself??..?

BTW - in fact - unless you originally contracted the patch vendor with "exclusivity" and a non-release for commercial re-sale with a clause for express consent, I doubt you have a leg to stand on to pursue the matter....

And for one or two $4.00 "LugerForum" patch sales on e-Bay, I sure as heck won't hire an IP Lawyer to even send a "cease and desist".. Much less take the time/money to even talk about pursuing it on a larger scale. And frankly, I could care less about any "free counsel" on the matter. "Words are cheap" to a lawyer - and actions go for about $300 per hour (for a good IP lawyer).

Come on folks - this is silly nonsense. Get back to talking about Lugers....

[Big Norm]

While I totally agree with John Sabato's concern. I have to agree also with John D's opinion that if this individual only has one or two patches then we should evaluate if it is worth the legal expense. In that case, we should just write if off as free advertising for the forum.

Heck, I just looked at my Bookmark of this sale. I did not compare my Bookmark with John Sabato's reference. But I did not see any way to put a bid on this article. There was not even a sellers reference, beginning bid or anything. Just a picture of the patch. Strange! I never have seen anything like this before on Ebay. Am I missing something?
Big Norm

[John Sabato]

The auction ad looks okay to me Norm... try refreshing the browser or just doing a new search for it...

BTW, the seller responded to my inquiry about his source for the ONE patch that he has and advised that it was among many patches that he purchased at a recent embroidered patch show... so this whole discussion is overkill... There won't be any string of Lugerforum patch auctions on eBay...