byf 41 Luger question

jason · 08-15-2001, 09:05 AM

I just got a new Luger to play with. It's a byf 41 with all matching numbers except the magazine. Bluing I'd say is about 90%+. There is some wear on the sharp edges like corners of the sideplate, etc., but that's it. Mechanically it seems excellent.

Here's my questions. I don't really know Lugers well except from what I've read on this site. I think the mag release and takedown lever are supposed to be "straw" colored? On this Luger, they are definately blued. During wartime were these parts blued, or are my parts not origional?

Also, I read on this site that Lugers were rust blued, and that such a gun isn't blued inside. The Luger I have is blued on the inside of the frame. The bluing does look like the old style rust bluing with a deep rich blue color. It is not the glossy black color of a new hot salt blue job. Also, all markings are sharp, and it looks like white paint is still in the letters of the safety. Is this correct?

Am I describing the symptoms of a refinished gun, or are these correct for a wartime made gun? I received the gun from the son of the Vet who brought it home, and I don't believe he would have ever had it refinished. The son has never shot it, and said he never remembered his father shooting it either.

Please let me know if I need to provide any more information. Thanks for any help.

Jason

Johnny Peppers · 08-15-2001, 09:20 AM

Military Lugers were rust blued with strawed small parts up into early 1937. After early 1937 the pistols were hot salt blued and the small parts were also blued. The rust blueing was a labor intensive process, and the hot salt blueing speeded up the manufacturing process.

John Sabato · 08-15-2001, 12:48 PM

"Gesichert" is probably also original Jason...

Sounds like a nice gun.

I own one also (see the owner's corner) but I had mine refinished years ago...

-John

08-15-2001, 06:09 PM

Your byf41 sounds correct and original--not refinished.

08-16-2001, 12:21 PM

Thankyou for the input. I suspected it was origional, but wasn't sure since I read about the insides not being blued. Now I know!

From what I gather from the blue book, the byf 41 is one of the most common Lugers. Is this because they made so many during this year, or because a lot of these happened to come to the US as GI trophies?

Also, one more question: The mag tube itself is blued, with an aluminum? buttplate. The butt is Nazi marked, but serial # doesn't match pistol. I'm guessing they wen't with all blue magazines at some point?

Hate to go here, but despite looking in the blue book already, what is a "fair market value" for byf 41, all matching except the mag and say 90%+ bluing?

Thanyou,

Jason

08-17-2001, 01:44 AM

The magazine for a byf41 should have a blued tube. If it is marked E/37 and fxo it is a Haenel-made magazine and appropriate. If it has E/655 inspection AND the pistol is E/655 inspected, these two are historical buddies, being made about the same time. Some 41byfs have the plastic bottom fxo mags and the earlier pistols have the aluminum bottom mags with a serial number. Always hard to value a luger but because these are fairly common and there are only a couple of uncommon subvariations, the value is probably $550-%800. If it is really right at 90%, I would narrow that figure to $600-750. Check the inspection stamps. If they are E/135, you have one of the 7000 or so last byf41's. I have been hunting for one of these and have seen two in the last three years. Those don't command a premium but are interesting. Ku marked byf41's are worth a premium as are police safety byf41s.

In 1941, P38 production was apparently not up to mil needs so lugers were in full production. Radoms, HiPowers helped take up some of the slack. At this point, Germany was entering the most intense part of the war in both Africa and Russia. Equipment needs were high and losses would soon erode materiel supplies. Lots of lugers were made from 1936-1942 but lots were needed and used. Survival rates for lugers would be highest and in highest condition for the 41s and 42s. The 42's ceased in November 42 and the last 4 thousand were sent to Portugal. P38, Radom and HiPower production was in full swing by 1942.

08-15-2001, 09:05 AM	#1
jason User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: fargo nd Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	byf 41 Luger question I just got a new Luger to play with. It's a byf 41 with all matching numbers except the magazine. Bluing I'd say is about 90%+. There is some wear on the sharp edges like corners of the sideplate, etc., but that's it. Mechanically it seems excellent. Here's my questions. I don't really know Lugers well except from what I've read on this site. I think the mag release and takedown lever are supposed to be "straw" colored? On this Luger, they are definately blued. During wartime were these parts blued, or are my parts not origional? Also, I read on this site that Lugers were rust blued, and that such a gun isn't blued inside. The Luger I have is blued on the inside of the frame. The bluing does look like the old style rust bluing with a deep rich blue color. It is not the glossy black color of a new hot salt blue job. Also, all markings are sharp, and it looks like white paint is still in the letters of the safety. Is this correct? Am I describing the symptoms of a refinished gun, or are these correct for a wartime made gun? I received the gun from the son of the Vet who brought it home, and I don't believe he would have ever had it refinished. The son has never shot it, and said he never remembered his father shooting it either. Please let me know if I need to provide any more information. Thanks for any help. Jason

08-15-2001, 09:20 AM	#2
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: byf 41 Luger question Military Lugers were rust blued with strawed small parts up into early 1937. After early 1937 the pistols were hot salt blued and the small parts were also blued. The rust blueing was a labor intensive process, and the hot salt blueing speeded up the manufacturing process.

08-15-2001, 12:48 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	If your BYF 41 seems original, the "paint" in the safety inscription "Gesichert" is probably also original Jason... Sounds like a nice gun. I own one also (see the owner's corner) but I had mine refinished years ago... -John

08-15-2001, 06:09 PM	#4
mlm Guest Posts: n/a	Re: byf 41 Luger question Your byf41 sounds correct and original--not refinished.

08-16-2001, 12:21 PM	#5
Jason Dubois Guest Posts: n/a	Re: byf 41 Luger question Thankyou for the input. I suspected it was origional, but wasn't sure since I read about the insides not being blued. Now I know! From what I gather from the blue book, the byf 41 is one of the most common Lugers. Is this because they made so many during this year, or because a lot of these happened to come to the US as GI trophies? Also, one more question: The mag tube itself is blued, with an aluminum? buttplate. The butt is Nazi marked, but serial # doesn't match pistol. I'm guessing they wen't with all blue magazines at some point? Hate to go here, but despite looking in the blue book already, what is a "fair market value" for byf 41, all matching except the mag and say 90%+ bluing? Thanyou, Jason

08-17-2001, 01:44 AM	#6
mlm Guest Posts: n/a	Re: byf 41 Luger question The magazine for a byf41 should have a blued tube. If it is marked E/37 and fxo it is a Haenel-made magazine and appropriate. If it has E/655 inspection AND the pistol is E/655 inspected, these two are historical buddies, being made about the same time. Some 41byfs have the plastic bottom fxo mags and the earlier pistols have the aluminum bottom mags with a serial number. Always hard to value a luger but because these are fairly common and there are only a couple of uncommon subvariations, the value is probably $550-%800. If it is really right at 90%, I would narrow that figure to $600-750. Check the inspection stamps. If they are E/135, you have one of the 7000 or so last byf41's. I have been hunting for one of these and have seen two in the last three years. Those don't command a premium but are interesting. Ku marked byf41's are worth a premium as are police safety byf41s. In 1941, P38 production was apparently not up to mil needs so lugers were in full production. Radoms, HiPowers helped take up some of the slack. At this point, Germany was entering the most intense part of the war in both Africa and Russia. Equipment needs were high and losses would soon erode materiel supplies. Lots of lugers were made from 1936-1942 but lots were needed and used. Survival rates for lugers would be highest and in highest condition for the 41s and 42s. The 42's ceased in November 42 and the last 4 thousand were sent to Portugal. P38, Radom and HiPower production was in full swing by 1942.