Ripped off in Miami

Aaron · 08-18-2007, 02:24 PM

I've been defrauded of $1200 by a seller in Miami who goes by the name of Jim Hurley. Would like to hear from a forum member in that area who might be of some help to me. Please e-mail me at neveragain18@sbcglobal.net

Many thanks,
Aaron

policeluger · 08-18-2007, 02:41 PM

Was this a gun deal/gun dealer, would you care to give more info on nature of deal?

Aaron · 08-18-2007, 05:50 PM

This individual Jim Hurley called me on my cell phone, knew me by name, and said he had met me at a gun show a long time ago. I couldn't remember him but I believed him, as I only give my cell number to gun collector friends and acquaintenances. He gained my interest by stating he had a WWII vet friend who had a number of German pistols for sale, and talked about a deal amounting to thousands of dollars. I told him I would buy one pistol (which he swore was mint), a KM marked Mauser, and would deal on the others if this one was satisfactory. I sent him $1200 about five months ago, and never received the gun, just a number of excuses and apologies (car accident, laid up in hospital, thought he had sent it out weeks ago, etc. etc.). He only answers his phone rarely, and only if I call him on weekdays about 6 PM eastern time. I have his phone number, e-mail address, and only a box number for his mailing address. The Florida authorities don't want to talk to me, and the P.O. authorities don't even allow me to talk to a live person. The cops wouldn't even do a reverse search on his phone number to get me his real address. Looks like I need some help at the Miami end.

Mauser720 · 08-18-2007, 07:35 PM

Aaron -

Have you tried going to www.google.com and simply putting the area code and phone number into the "search" block? If you do this, you can often get back the name of the person, also the complete address, and also a link to a map of the address. Just put the number into the search block like this hypothetical number: 816-295-4102 and then hit the "search" button and see what comes back. This will not work under all circumsatances, but try it and see what you get back.

Ron

MarkC · 08-18-2007, 08:19 PM

Aaron,

Did you get the serial number of the gun you bought?

All gun purchases I make I require the serial number from the seller that way you can say it was "stolen" and report it to the police with the serial number.

I also send a letter with my check FedEx or with the post office as "certified mail" so the seller has to sign for the money, now you have a case with the police. (PO Money Order for guys I don't know)

Many years ago I was "ripped" off by a guy who was known as a thief and the local PD needed that information to recover my property, he got away with it. ... and had sold the same sear to other people. ... I did not have a case!

With the many transactions since that time, only one guy who was not a thief and had legal problems with a restraining order (gun collection confiscated) have I had to contact the local police to get my property back.

It worked and I recovered my guns from the PD after many, many months of hard work.

Wish you the best with the local police, they can't help without information about the property in question.

If the gun belongs to Ron Smith or Ed Tinker I require two forms of ID sent via fax to my office ...... errrr ..... not really ...... just kiddin' !!!

Mark

Edward Tinker · 08-18-2007, 08:30 PM

Ron, he didn't say they had to be the "same" two forms of ID

I would try the reverse look ups too, however, cell phone numbers are usually unreliable unless you "pay" a company to retrieve it and it could come back to the same PO box.

That said, it is amazing to me that the PD, local guys won't do anything?

If you know the po box, you can look on mapquest and see what towns are close. You can put in the guys name and towns, and many times it pops up with their local address, unless they have always been unlisted.

lew1 · 08-18-2007, 08:50 PM

There is also www.whitepages.com

Also many Florida counties have real estate records on line from which you can find deeds. mortgages, tax info, etc. (Most of which have addresses.)

I know the Daytona Beach area and the Tampa Bay area have this feature. So if the county (and adjacent counties depending on where he lives) have these, you might be able to find his address that way. Even if the property is not in his name, check the mortgages as spouses have to sign them.

See:

https://www.myfloridacounty.com/serv...er.state.Start

A specific example:

http://www.co.hernando.fl.us/

Mauser720 · 08-18-2007, 09:01 PM

Aaron, Mark, and Ed -

You will not usually get much help from the police or the Post Office. But every state has a consumer fraud office that will investigate complaints. The toll free number for this office in Florida is 1-866-966-7226. They will not promise you anything, except that if you file a complaint with them, they will investigate it. You will have to fill out a form, which they can mail to you, or if you can download and read a pdf file on your computer, you can just download it and print it off. Everything that has been said above applies, in the sense that you will have to put together a case file that will "stand on its own." By this, I mean that anyone picking up your case file will be able to read it and understand exactly what you are complaining about, and exactly when each alleged incident happened. For example, go back into your cell phone records, and determine when this individual originally contacted you. Include your copy of the money order or the canceled check that you sent to him. Include a copy of your cover letter that you used to forward the money to him. Somewhere in the case file, you need to show the times that you have contacted him, and exactly what he has told you each time. Somewhere in your case file, mention that you think this is especially serious, since it involves a handgun. (this may help to get their attention) You should always send everything by certified mail, with a return receipt requested. If you didn't do that with this money, that can't be helped now, but from here on out, just ensure you send everything by certified mail with a return receipt requested. So send the fraud complaint form, and copies of all your docrumentation (including that part of your cell phone records that shows when he called you, etc.) to the office in Florida by certified mail with a return receipt requested. You will get back a generic letter from them and they will assign an investigator to look into the case. It can take a long time to put together a good case file, and it can take a long time for you to actually get resolution, but since it is a lot of money, it is worth the effort. The state attorney general's office is usually too busy to pursue "small" cases like this. But the investigator can "put the fear of God" into the criminal and they may scare him enough that you will get your money back anyway. I have done exactly what I am recommending you do, and it does work.

Ron

Aaron · 08-19-2007, 01:25 AM

Unbelievable! Google gave me his street address! So howshould I handle this now? Possibly hire a private detective to pay him a visit?

Mauser720 · 08-19-2007, 06:52 AM

Aaron -

No, I would not waste my time hiring a private detective, because you now have all the information you need.

Briefly, here are the steps I recommend:

1. Draft a letter to him. In the first sentence of the letter, you make the following statement: "The purpose of this notice is to inform you that unless I hear from you within 10 calendar days of your receipt of this letter, I am going to pursue the filing of a complaint of consumer fruad with the State of Florida regarding the manner in which you have defrauded me of $X,XXX.XX. This notice is being sent to you in two identical copies. One is being sent by certified mail with a return receipt requested, and the other is being sent to you by regular first class mail. Under U.S. Postal Service regulations I have a right to assume delivery of the regular first class mail if it is not returned to me. The reasons for this notice are as follows:"

And then you lay out all of your evidence, step by step. When did he call you. What did you tell him. What did he say each time you called him again, etc. Be very detailed and very specific. It doesn't matter how many pages of typing it takes to document beyond a doubt everything that has happened and when it happened, etc. Make sure you mention what type of a handgun it was, etc., because your complaint may be taken more seriously since this is a handgun issue.

The reason you must do this, is you must be able to prove with documentation that you have contacted him and that you have given him a chance to "do the right thing."

Then, you keep one copy of the notice for yourself, and you send the other two copies to him, one by certified mail with a return receipt requested, and the second copy by regular first class mail.

Here is what will likely happen: He will refuse to claim the certified mail, but he will open up the regular first class mail envelope, and then you have accomplished your purpose. Plus, you save the unopened certified mail envelop when it is returned to you marked "unclaimed" because this is further evidence that this man is not responsive.

I would still send both letters to his P.O. Box, because you do not want to tip him off that you already know his home address.

He probably will not believe that you are going to follow through with your promise to file a complaint. So after the 10 calendar days has elapsed, you go ahead and file a complaint with the consumer fraud authorities in Florida. Just do a Google search for this "Consumer Fraud, Florida" and it will take you to the Florida Attorney Generals Office. Read what they have to say. You can get the form they use to receive complaints too. Once you develop your case file and send it to Florida, be sure you also send it by certified mail with a return receipt requested. (Everyone takes certified mail seriously.) Include the home address you got from Google in the file, etc. Specifically tell them you want your money back.

Usually, what will happen is that it will be turned over to the office of the sheriff in the county in which the guy lives. Eventually you will get a generic letter from them that they are working on it, etc.

I would also check the county in which he lives to see if they have their own consumer fraud protection program.

If you will take the time to do this, not only is it very possible you are going to get your money back, but you will also have made it possible for the authorities in Florida to have a record on this fellow's activities. Perhaps you can prevent him from defrauding someone else. I have personally recovered $1,300.00 using just the approach I have outlined here.

You just have to have the persistence and durability of Plutonium 90.

Ron

Aaron · 08-19-2007, 11:03 AM

Ron, I'm grateful for your advice. Will try to do as you recommend.

Aaron

Mauser720 · 08-19-2007, 11:07 AM

Aaron -

You are welcome. I wish you the best on this.

Ron

Ron Smith · 08-19-2007, 12:12 PM

Aaron,

Another step to take. This combined with Ron's advice will add some weight. If the mail was used in any form, during this transaction, it constitutes mail fraud.

DO NOT open the Certified Letter if it is returned unclaimed. That way there is no question as to the validity of the letter enclosed. Leave it as received.

http://www.usps.com/postalinspectors...dComplaint.htm

Ron

Pete Ebbink · 08-19-2007, 12:51 PM

Aaron,

If you received his FFL or C&R info, you might go on the BATF web site to see if his license number is still valid.

I have had a run in with a fellow in NV State. Before I sent money, we traded FFL's in the mail. I checked his on the web site and saw it had expired...but his signed copy showed a new, current date. Looking at it more closely, the font of the date did not match others numbers on the license. When I saw that, I called off the deal and did not send money.

If you can do this with your Florida fellow and find out his license is bogus, you could even report him to the BATF...so he would get lots of folks looking into his business practices...especially if he ignores your other letters and inquiries for a refund.

Aaron · 08-19-2007, 09:48 PM

Unfortunately, he's not licensed.

jamese · 08-20-2007, 07:48 AM

Aaron,
give me a call at the office, I'll see what I can do

(772) 220-3922

Jim

John Sabato · 04-10-2008, 06:25 PM

Aaron, Did you ever get any satisfaction in this matter? I just came across this thread and noticed that you had no posts since Jim gave you his phone number. I would sure like to know the outcome.

Thanks,

Aaron · 04-10-2008, 08:00 PM

The phone has been disconnected, and I have given up on the $1200. I thank you all for your kind advice, butI don't think there is anything further I can do.

Edward Tinker · 04-10-2008, 08:09 PM

aaron, I have made this a sticky, it has some great infromation in it. I will make it more generic if you'd like.

ed

lboos · 04-10-2008, 09:28 PM

to send $1200 to someone who says you know him but you cant remember his name and dont even remember meeting him wow" and then to say he is not licensed. im trying hard not say what im really thinking because i dont want to get run off from here. sorry but do you think you might be part of your own problem? im sorry for your loss, i really am. any comments? good or bad.

08-18-2007, 02:24 PM	#1
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Ripped off in Miami I've been defrauded of $1200 by a seller in Miami who goes by the name of Jim Hurley. Would like to hear from a forum member in that area who might be of some help to me. Please e-mail me at neveragain18@sbcglobal.net Many thanks, Aaron

08-18-2007, 07:35 PM	#4
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	Aaron - Have you tried going to www.google.com and simply putting the area code and phone number into the "search" block? If you do this, you can often get back the name of the person, also the complete address, and also a link to a map of the address. Just put the number into the search block like this hypothetical number: 816-295-4102 and then hit the "search" button and see what comes back. This will not work under all circumsatances, but try it and see what you get back. Ron __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

08-18-2007, 08:50 PM	#7
lew1 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,108 Thanks: 82 Thanked 204 Times in 112 Posts	There is also www.whitepages.com Also many Florida counties have real estate records on line from which you can find deeds. mortgages, tax info, etc. (Most of which have addresses.) I know the Daytona Beach area and the Tampa Bay area have this feature. So if the county (and adjacent counties depending on where he lives) have these, you might be able to find his address that way. Even if the property is not in his name, check the mortgages as spouses have to sign them. See: https://www.myfloridacounty.com/serv...er.state.Start A specific example: http://www.co.hernando.fl.us/ __________________ charlie

08-18-2007, 09:01 PM	#8
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	Aaron, Mark, and Ed - You will not usually get much help from the police or the Post Office. But every state has a consumer fraud office that will investigate complaints. The toll free number for this office in Florida is 1-866-966-7226. They will not promise you anything, except that if you file a complaint with them, they will investigate it. You will have to fill out a form, which they can mail to you, or if you can download and read a pdf file on your computer, you can just download it and print it off. Everything that has been said above applies, in the sense that you will have to put together a case file that will "stand on its own." By this, I mean that anyone picking up your case file will be able to read it and understand exactly what you are complaining about, and exactly when each alleged incident happened. For example, go back into your cell phone records, and determine when this individual originally contacted you. Include your copy of the money order or the canceled check that you sent to him. Include a copy of your cover letter that you used to forward the money to him. Somewhere in the case file, you need to show the times that you have contacted him, and exactly what he has told you each time. Somewhere in your case file, mention that you think this is especially serious, since it involves a handgun. (this may help to get their attention) You should always send everything by certified mail, with a return receipt requested. If you didn't do that with this money, that can't be helped now, but from here on out, just ensure you send everything by certified mail with a return receipt requested. So send the fraud complaint form, and copies of all your docrumentation (including that part of your cell phone records that shows when he called you, etc.) to the office in Florida by certified mail with a return receipt requested. You will get back a generic letter from them and they will assign an investigator to look into the case. It can take a long time to put together a good case file, and it can take a long time for you to actually get resolution, but since it is a lot of money, it is worth the effort. The state attorney general's office is usually too busy to pursue "small" cases like this. But the investigator can "put the fear of God" into the criminal and they may scare him enough that you will get your money back anyway. I have done exactly what I am recommending you do, and it does work. Ron __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

08-19-2007, 06:52 AM	#10
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	Aaron - No, I would not waste my time hiring a private detective, because you now have all the information you need. Briefly, here are the steps I recommend: 1. Draft a letter to him. In the first sentence of the letter, you make the following statement: "The purpose of this notice is to inform you that unless I hear from you within 10 calendar days of your receipt of this letter, I am going to pursue the filing of a complaint of consumer fruad with the State of Florida regarding the manner in which you have defrauded me of $X,XXX.XX. This notice is being sent to you in two identical copies. One is being sent by certified mail with a return receipt requested, and the other is being sent to you by regular first class mail. Under U.S. Postal Service regulations I have a right to assume delivery of the regular first class mail if it is not returned to me. The reasons for this notice are as follows:" And then you lay out all of your evidence, step by step. When did he call you. What did you tell him. What did he say each time you called him again, etc. Be very detailed and very specific. It doesn't matter how many pages of typing it takes to document beyond a doubt everything that has happened and when it happened, etc. Make sure you mention what type of a handgun it was, etc., because your complaint may be taken more seriously since this is a handgun issue. The reason you must do this, is you must be able to prove with documentation that you have contacted him and that you have given him a chance to "do the right thing." Then, you keep one copy of the notice for yourself, and you send the other two copies to him, one by certified mail with a return receipt requested, and the second copy by regular first class mail. Here is what will likely happen: He will refuse to claim the certified mail, but he will open up the regular first class mail envelope, and then you have accomplished your purpose. Plus, you save the unopened certified mail envelop when it is returned to you marked "unclaimed" because this is further evidence that this man is not responsive. I would still send both letters to his P.O. Box, because you do not want to tip him off that you already know his home address. He probably will not believe that you are going to follow through with your promise to file a complaint. So after the 10 calendar days has elapsed, you go ahead and file a complaint with the consumer fraud authorities in Florida. Just do a Google search for this "Consumer Fraud, Florida" and it will take you to the Florida Attorney Generals Office. Read what they have to say. You can get the form they use to receive complaints too. Once you develop your case file and send it to Florida, be sure you also send it by certified mail with a return receipt requested. (Everyone takes certified mail seriously.) Include the home address you got from Google in the file, etc. Specifically tell them you want your money back. Usually, what will happen is that it will be turned over to the office of the sheriff in the county in which the guy lives. Eventually you will get a generic letter from them that they are working on it, etc. I would also check the county in which he lives to see if they have their own consumer fraud protection program. If you will take the time to do this, not only is it very possible you are going to get your money back, but you will also have made it possible for the authorities in Florida to have a record on this fellow's activities. Perhaps you can prevent him from defrauding someone else. I have personally recovered $1,300.00 using just the approach I have outlined here. You just have to have the persistence and durability of Plutonium 90. Ron __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

08-18-2007, 02:41 PM	#2
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Was this a gun deal/gun dealer, would you care to give more info on nature of deal?

08-18-2007, 05:50 PM	#3
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	This individual Jim Hurley called me on my cell phone, knew me by name, and said he had met me at a gun show a long time ago. I couldn't remember him but I believed him, as I only give my cell number to gun collector friends and acquaintenances. He gained my interest by stating he had a WWII vet friend who had a number of German pistols for sale, and talked about a deal amounting to thousands of dollars. I told him I would buy one pistol (which he swore was mint), a KM marked Mauser, and would deal on the others if this one was satisfactory. I sent him $1200 about five months ago, and never received the gun, just a number of excuses and apologies (car accident, laid up in hospital, thought he had sent it out weeks ago, etc. etc.). He only answers his phone rarely, and only if I call him on weekdays about 6 PM eastern time. I have his phone number, e-mail address, and only a box number for his mailing address. The Florida authorities don't want to talk to me, and the P.O. authorities don't even allow me to talk to a live person. The cops wouldn't even do a reverse search on his phone number to get me his real address. Looks like I need some help at the Miami end.

08-18-2007, 08:19 PM	#5
MarkC User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 478 Thanks: 1 Thanked 109 Times in 26 Posts	Aaron, Did you get the serial number of the gun you bought? All gun purchases I make I require the serial number from the seller that way you can say it was "stolen" and report it to the police with the serial number. I also send a letter with my check FedEx or with the post office as "certified mail" so the seller has to sign for the money, now you have a case with the police. (PO Money Order for guys I don't know) Many years ago I was "ripped" off by a guy who was known as a thief and the local PD needed that information to recover my property, he got away with it. ... and had sold the same sear to other people. ... I did not have a case! With the many transactions since that time, only one guy who was not a thief and had legal problems with a restraining order (gun collection confiscated) have I had to contact the local police to get my property back. It worked and I recovered my guns from the PD after many, many months of hard work. Wish you the best with the local police, they can't help without information about the property in question. If the gun belongs to Ron Smith or Ed Tinker I require two forms of ID sent via fax to my office ...... errrr ..... not really ...... just kiddin' !!! Mark

08-18-2007, 08:30 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	Ron, he didn't say they had to be the "same" two forms of ID I would try the reverse look ups too, however, cell phone numbers are usually unreliable unless you "pay" a company to retrieve it and it could come back to the same PO box. That said, it is amazing to me that the PD, local guys won't do anything? If you know the po box, you can look on mapquest and see what towns are close. You can put in the guys name and towns, and many times it pops up with their local address, unless they have always been unlisted.

08-19-2007, 01:25 AM	#9
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Unbelievable! Google gave me his street address! So howshould I handle this now? Possibly hire a private detective to pay him a visit?

08-19-2007, 11:03 AM	#11
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Ron, I'm grateful for your advice. Will try to do as you recommend. Aaron

08-19-2007, 11:07 AM	#12
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	Aaron - You are welcome. I wish you the best on this. Ron __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

08-19-2007, 12:12 PM	#13
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Aaron, Another step to take. This combined with Ron's advice will add some weight. If the mail was used in any form, during this transaction, it constitutes mail fraud. DO NOT open the Certified Letter if it is returned unclaimed. That way there is no question as to the validity of the letter enclosed. Leave it as received. http://www.usps.com/postalinspectors...dComplaint.htm Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

08-19-2007, 12:51 PM	#14
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Aaron, If you received his FFL or C&R info, you might go on the BATF web site to see if his license number is still valid. I have had a run in with a fellow in NV State. Before I sent money, we traded FFL's in the mail. I checked his on the web site and saw it had expired...but his signed copy showed a new, current date. Looking at it more closely, the font of the date did not match others numbers on the license. When I saw that, I called off the deal and did not send money. If you can do this with your Florida fellow and find out his license is bogus, you could even report him to the BATF...so he would get lots of folks looking into his business practices...especially if he ignores your other letters and inquiries for a refund.

08-19-2007, 09:48 PM	#15
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Unfortunately, he's not licensed.

08-20-2007, 07:48 AM	#16
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 789 Thanks: 0 Thanked 84 Times in 34 Posts	Aaron, give me a call at the office, I'll see what I can do (772) 220-3922 Jim __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

04-10-2008, 06:25 PM	#17
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Aaron, Did you ever get any satisfaction in this matter? I just came across this thread and noticed that you had no posts since Jim gave you his phone number. I would sure like to know the outcome. Thanks, __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-10-2008, 08:00 PM	#18
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	The phone has been disconnected, and I have given up on the $1200. I thank you all for your kind advice, butI don't think there is anything further I can do.

04-10-2008, 08:09 PM	#19
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	aaron, I have made this a sticky, it has some great infromation in it. I will make it more generic if you'd like. ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-10-2008, 09:28 PM	#20
lboos User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ga. Posts: 69 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	to send $1200 to someone who says you know him but you cant remember his name and dont even remember meeting him wow" and then to say he is not licensed. im trying hard not say what im really thinking because i dont want to get run off from here. sorry but do you think you might be part of your own problem? im sorry for your loss, i really am. any comments? good or bad.