Ever hear of this one?

Roadkill · 01-03-2003, 07:29 PM

Hey ya'll, been sitting around with my ugly dog reading up on guns and stuff (as if I didn't have anything else to do), and this caught my attention. It is in Datig's "The History and Development of Imperial and Soviet Russian Military Small Arms and Ammunition", Volume Thirteen, the Soviet Russian Tokarev "TT" Pistols and Cartridges 1929-1953.In the section on poison bullets for a Russian Pistol Cartridges a description of referenced is made, then the following: "The weight of the bullet is given at 61.7 grains. It is of interest to note that a handfull of 9mm parabellum cartridges employing a very similar bullet were discovered after WWII in the Berlin house of the wartime chief of police in that city. They were in the (Luger Parabellum) magazine of a most unusual, specialty made silenced firearm almost surely made for assasination purposes. The rest is about the bullets. So, if it was a Luger magazine it must have been for a luger. A one of a kind Luger. Just curious.

rk

ViggoG · 01-03-2003, 10:40 PM

Roadkill, [img]wink.gif[/img]
Some while back on the old Forum there was a Luger Of The Month with a threaded barrel where the front sight is usually found. [img]cool.gif[/img]
This sounds as though it may have been one of those critters as I recall It was July 2001 called "Assassins Luger", <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
http://www.lugerforum.com/images/FrontPage/jul01.jpg
Right in the end of the barrel you can dimly see the ring of a well fitted Machine Thread.
Is this that type of Luger? I believe so!! And Thats Just My Guess.
ViggoG <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Dwight Gruber · 01-04-2003, 06:10 AM

Datig ("The Luger Pistol" pp 145-147) presents the example of a silenced Luger, and a discussion of the velocity-reduced ammunition necessary to make it silent; a picture is included on p. 146.

--Dwight

Kernel 36 · 01-04-2003, 08:11 PM

In the book German 7.92 Military Ammunition they touch on 2 "bull pups"(actions in the stock),one semi auto (Luger mag,and toggle action),and one bolt action (just a Luger mag). Both were 9mm with shoulder stocks,and silencers. The bolt action made less noise than the toggle action.The author reported he only heard the firing pin strike. These cost over $3500 to make in 1939 at DWM,and only 2 were known to be produced.These were equiped with Zeiss 4x optics and were intended for "clandestine" work.The man who gave the order to produce these prototypes got mixed up with Hitlers assassination plot,and was executed by the Gestapo. When Army Intel got these in 1961,an original bullet from the gun was checked and found to have a frangible projectile. If you see the book,its got a good drawing of the bolt action version,as well as a pic of the X-ray of the complete bullet. Mabey this is what the article was talking about?

Kernel 36 · 01-04-2003, 08:17 PM

Oops! You said Police Chief of Berlin. This is the weapon and ammo in the book,I just checked it.If you see the book,get it,98% is 8mm,but the 2 pages on the "carbines" are truly outstanding.

John D. · 01-04-2003, 08:49 PM

[quote]Originally posted by ViggoG:
<strong>Roadkill, [img]wink.gif[/img]
Some while back on the old Forum there was a Luger Of The Month with a threaded barrel where the front sight is usually... </strong><hr></blockquote>

You have a fine memory, my friend... [img]smile.gif[/img]

That Luger's serial number placed it at the beginning of the Mauser's production, when they made several prototypes/cut-aways. There are actually several documented "Assassins Lugers" - and quite a bit of research has been conducted by another collector in Europe, but they all share several common charastics.

On the picture you linked to, the front barrel band and sight "unscrew" - and it is held in place with a spring in the sight base with a detent. Also, on that Luger specificially - it was taken complete with a silencer, but the silencer was destroyed by BATF before this factory prototype came into my possession.

Best to you!!

ViggoG · 01-04-2003, 10:06 PM

John D.,
The memory is not that good but the archives are !
By the way what ever happened to the Members Profiles from the old Forum.
Can they still be accessed, and is there any place for placing them in the new Forum?
ViggoG [img]confused.gif[/img]

Thor · 01-04-2003, 11:33 PM

This works for ol Thor!!!

Old Forum member profiles-CLICK HERE

ViggoG · 01-05-2003, 12:44 AM

Thank you "Thor". <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
OT--- Now how about some pictures, for another thread, of your "Nu Blu". <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
Sorry bout that, I hada call it sumthin didnt I ?
<img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
ViggoG

Thor · 01-05-2003, 11:32 AM

Viggo, how about "Nordic Blue", kinda goes with the Thor Thingy

ViggoG · 01-05-2003, 01:52 PM

Thor Buddy,
Sounds GREAT to me, <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
So now that you have my permission <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
then NORDIC BLUE it shall be !!! <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
YOU is "De King Of De Blues". <img src="graemlins/r.gif" border="0" alt="[king]" />
Viggo <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

7.92x57 · 01-06-2003, 08:46 AM

Hello, anywone have an idea about where to get that 7.92mm military ammo book? I'm very interested.

Thanks, Arnaud

Kernel 36 · 01-13-2003, 08:40 PM

Try Amazon.com. I got mine through a military book club some years ago. Great book!

01-03-2003, 07:29 PM	#1
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Ever hear of this one? Hey ya'll, been sitting around with my ugly dog reading up on guns and stuff (as if I didn't have anything else to do), and this caught my attention. It is in Datig's "The History and Development of Imperial and Soviet Russian Military Small Arms and Ammunition", Volume Thirteen, the Soviet Russian Tokarev "TT" Pistols and Cartridges 1929-1953.In the section on poison bullets for a Russian Pistol Cartridges a description of referenced is made, then the following: "The weight of the bullet is given at 61.7 grains. It is of interest to note that a handfull of 9mm parabellum cartridges employing a very similar bullet were discovered after WWII in the Berlin house of the wartime chief of police in that city. They were in the (Luger Parabellum) magazine of a most unusual, specialty made silenced firearm almost surely made for assasination purposes. The rest is about the bullets. So, if it was a Luger magazine it must have been for a luger. A one of a kind Luger. Just curious. rk

01-04-2003, 11:33 PM	#8
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	This works for ol Thor!!! Old Forum member profiles-CLICK HERE __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

01-05-2003, 11:32 AM	#10
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Viggo, how about "Nordic Blue", kinda goes with the Thor Thingy __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

01-03-2003, 10:40 PM	#2
ViggoG RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: South Side Virginia Posts: 534 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Roadkill, [img]wink.gif[/img] Some while back on the old Forum there was a Luger Of The Month with a threaded barrel where the front sight is usually found. [img]cool.gif[/img] This sounds as though it may have been one of those critters as I recall It was July 2001 called "Assassins Luger", <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> http://www.lugerforum.com/images/FrontPage/jul01.jpg Right in the end of the barrel you can dimly see the ring of a well fitted Machine Thread. Is this that type of Luger? I believe so!! And Thats Just My Guess. ViggoG <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

01-04-2003, 06:10 AM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,893 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,288 Times in 426 Posts	Datig ("The Luger Pistol" pp 145-147) presents the example of a silenced Luger, and a discussion of the velocity-reduced ammunition necessary to make it silent; a picture is included on p. 146. --Dwight

01-04-2003, 08:11 PM	#4
Kernel 36 User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	In the book German 7.92 Military Ammunition they touch on 2 "bull pups"(actions in the stock),one semi auto (Luger mag,and toggle action),and one bolt action (just a Luger mag). Both were 9mm with shoulder stocks,and silencers. The bolt action made less noise than the toggle action.The author reported he only heard the firing pin strike. These cost over $3500 to make in 1939 at DWM,and only 2 were known to be produced.These were equiped with Zeiss 4x optics and were intended for "clandestine" work.The man who gave the order to produce these prototypes got mixed up with Hitlers assassination plot,and was executed by the Gestapo. When Army Intel got these in 1961,an original bullet from the gun was checked and found to have a frangible projectile. If you see the book,its got a good drawing of the bolt action version,as well as a pic of the X-ray of the complete bullet. Mabey this is what the article was talking about?

01-04-2003, 08:17 PM	#5
Kernel 36 User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Oops! You said Police Chief of Berlin. This is the weapon and ammo in the book,I just checked it.If you see the book,get it,98% is 8mm,but the 2 pages on the "carbines" are truly outstanding.

01-04-2003, 08:49 PM	#6
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 514 Times in 128 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by ViggoG: <strong>Roadkill, [img]wink.gif[/img] Some while back on the old Forum there was a Luger Of The Month with a threaded barrel where the front sight is usually... </strong><hr></blockquote> You have a fine memory, my friend... [img]smile.gif[/img] That Luger's serial number placed it at the beginning of the Mauser's production, when they made several prototypes/cut-aways. There are actually several documented "Assassins Lugers" - and quite a bit of research has been conducted by another collector in Europe, but they all share several common charastics. On the picture you linked to, the front barrel band and sight "unscrew" - and it is held in place with a spring in the sight base with a detent. Also, on that Luger specificially - it was taken complete with a silencer, but the silencer was destroyed by BATF before this factory prototype came into my possession. Best to you!!

01-04-2003, 10:06 PM	#7
ViggoG RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: South Side Virginia Posts: 534 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	John D., The memory is not that good but the archives are ! By the way what ever happened to the Members Profiles from the old Forum. Can they still be accessed, and is there any place for placing them in the new Forum? ViggoG [img]confused.gif[/img]

01-05-2003, 12:44 AM	#9
ViggoG RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: South Side Virginia Posts: 534 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thank you "Thor". <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> OT--- Now how about some pictures, for another thread, of your "Nu Blu". <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> Sorry bout that, I hada call it sumthin didnt I ? <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" /> ViggoG

01-05-2003, 01:52 PM	#11
ViggoG RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: South Side Virginia Posts: 534 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thor Buddy, Sounds GREAT to me, <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> So now that you have my permission <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> then NORDIC BLUE it shall be !!! <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> YOU is "De King Of De Blues". <img src="graemlins/r.gif" border="0" alt="[king]" /> Viggo <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

01-06-2003, 08:46 AM	#12
7.92x57 User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: France Posts: 26 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello, anywone have an idea about where to get that 7.92mm military ammo book? I'm very interested. Thanks, Arnaud

01-13-2003, 08:40 PM	#13
Kernel 36 User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Try Amazon.com. I got mine through a military book club some years ago. Great book!