Swiss 9mm aluminum ammo, 1943

Vlim · 06-11-2006, 10:31 AM

Just scored this little sealed box, together with a sample round, at a local collector's meet.

This 9mm version was only produced between 1941 and 1945. The box differs somewhat from the .30 luger versions. It also holds 16 rounds, but both sides can be opened up independently so that a magazine ration of 8 rounds can be removed from the box.

For comparison the more common .30 luger (7,65 parabellum) box:

the gunman · 06-11-2006, 11:10 AM

Hi Gerbin you do come up with some wonderful finds.

Pete Ebbink · 06-11-2006, 12:38 PM

Hi Gerben,

I, too, have an identical box of un-opened Swiss 9 mm ammo that is dated 1943 as well.

I was curious and perplexed about the 9 mm use in 1943; as the Swiss Ordnance did not adopt the 9 mm round until the P49 SIG pistol.

I asked on the Swiss Rifles forum what Swiss Ordnance weapon would have used 9 mm in 1943. "Guisan" indicated Swiss machine guns, did.

Vlim · 06-11-2006, 01:16 PM

Hi Pete,

The Swiss machineguns are part of the story. Extensive testing in order to find a follow-up for the luger was done between 1941 and 1946. This included 9mm SIG and 9mm Swiss Parabellum versions. There were also some competition versions of the Swiss Parabellum in 9mm.

The packaging (2 x 8 rounds) also suggests that it was meant for pistol use rather than machine gun use. I don't see myself loading a machine gun with the contents of these packages.

Parabellus · 06-11-2006, 02:51 PM

Gentlemen,

I was advised recently not to use aluminum cased ammo because the softer netal expands more inside the chamber making it harder to extract. Is that correct and is that why your aluminum ammo stays sealed in the boxes?

Russell

Parabellus · 06-12-2006, 09:00 AM

Tac,

Thank you for clearing that up.

Russell

Parabellus · 06-12-2006, 09:36 PM

Please Terry,

Where in Nihon is Yingtong? The closest I can guess is Ito (Yitong) on Izu Hanto.

Russell

Parabellus · 06-13-2006, 10:53 AM

Tac,

Sounds sort of right to me. It looks like a Wade-Giles transliteration of Chinese words meaning lands 'east of England'. Is that about right?
Anyway, if I were still a 'young' man with no particular attachments I would be pleased to hang out in East Asia again. Some of my most enlightening encounters along the road were with British and Australian travelers (not tourists). Problem is, you don't get to own a gun. Permanent residency is hard to get, also.

Hope you are enjoying your time way out east and get a chance to travel around.

To everyone else,
Didn't mean to take over this thread. It just happened.

Best wishes from the USA,

Russell

06-11-2006, 10:31 AM	#1
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Swiss 9mm aluminum ammo, 1943 Just scored this little sealed box, together with a sample round, at a local collector's meet. This 9mm version was only produced between 1941 and 1945. The box differs somewhat from the .30 luger versions. It also holds 16 rounds, but both sides can be opened up independently so that a magazine ration of 8 rounds can be removed from the box. For comparison the more common .30 luger (7,65 parabellum) box:

06-11-2006, 02:51 PM	#5
Parabellus User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SF Bay Posts: 195 Thanks: 16 Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts	Gentlemen, I was advised recently not to use aluminum cased ammo because the softer netal expands more inside the chamber making it harder to extract. Is that correct and is that why your aluminum ammo stays sealed in the boxes? Russell __________________

06-12-2006, 09:00 AM	#6
Parabellus User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SF Bay Posts: 195 Thanks: 16 Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts	Tac, Thank you for clearing that up. Russell __________________

06-13-2006, 10:53 AM	#8
Parabellus User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SF Bay Posts: 195 Thanks: 16 Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts	Tac, Sounds sort of right to me. It looks like a Wade-Giles transliteration of Chinese words meaning lands 'east of England'. Is that about right? Anyway, if I were still a 'young' man with no particular attachments I would be pleased to hang out in East Asia again. Some of my most enlightening encounters along the road were with British and Australian travelers (not tourists). Problem is, you don't get to own a gun. Permanent residency is hard to get, also. Hope you are enjoying your time way out east and get a chance to travel around. To everyone else, Didn't mean to take over this thread. It just happened. Best wishes from the USA, Russell __________________

06-11-2006, 11:10 AM	#2
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Hi Gerbin you do come up with some wonderful finds.

06-11-2006, 12:38 PM	#3
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Gerben, I, too, have an identical box of un-opened Swiss 9 mm ammo that is dated 1943 as well. I was curious and perplexed about the 9 mm use in 1943; as the Swiss Ordnance did not adopt the 9 mm round until the P49 SIG pistol. I asked on the Swiss Rifles forum what Swiss Ordnance weapon would have used 9 mm in 1943. "Guisan" indicated Swiss machine guns, did.

06-11-2006, 01:16 PM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi Pete, The Swiss machineguns are part of the story. Extensive testing in order to find a follow-up for the luger was done between 1941 and 1946. This included 9mm SIG and 9mm Swiss Parabellum versions. There were also some competition versions of the Swiss Parabellum in 9mm. The packaging (2 x 8 rounds) also suggests that it was meant for pistol use rather than machine gun use. I don't see myself loading a machine gun with the contents of these packages.

06-12-2006, 09:36 PM	#7
Parabellus User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SF Bay Posts: 195 Thanks: 16 Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts	Please Terry, Where in Nihon is Yingtong? The closest I can guess is Ito (Yitong) on Izu Hanto. Russell