Luger safety Question

[naugler]

Alright, I know I have been asking a few questions here and I don't even have a Luger (yet) but here's another one.

Are there any safety concerns with the vintage Luger that could cause it to explode or otherwise injur the shooter? The only example that I can think of would be with wartime rifles and exessive headspace - an easily remedied problem that can cause injury or death if left unchecked.
Are there any safety issues that can cause the firearm to become dangerous or unstable to the shooter (besides the obvious barrel obstruction, etc..).
-Scott

[wterrell]

None. Lugers are mechanically sound.

p.s.
Do not reload your own with black powder!
Be sure and understand the term "tack driver".

[naugler]

Thanks Wes

[lugerholsterrepair]

Wes, Why would it be a problem to reload a 9MM cartridge with black powder? I question if enough Black powder could be placed in a cartridge to make the toggle function but I suppose it's possible. It was my understanding that Black powder was once used in proof cartridges. Let me know...Thanks, Jerry Burney

[wterrell]

long story. will relate this evening.

[wterrell]

As a youngster full of stupidity, and not much hope for a long life, I undertook the project of reloading a few 32-40 bullets for deer hunting.
My dad was a roughneck in the oil fields at the time and had access to some black powder that was used for blasting jobs.
Powder is powder for all we knew, so I loaded up a dozen bullets. I am surprised that I was not killed while reloading the casings. But God looks after fools, I suppose.
My brother and I took the bullets and an old Winchester lever action rifle down to the creek and set up a bean can at which to shoot.
I layed the rifle across the top of an empty 55-gal drum and pulled the trigger.
The bullet exploded, rupturing the rifle barrel and also exploding 3 more rounds that were in the magazine. There was very little left of the rifle that would be recognized as operable. I was a bleeding, shocked mess of a stupor.
The rifle died.

[minigun]

Well, don't stop there, how bad were the injuries?

[lugerholsterrepair]

Wes,I guess I am still puzzled. Black powder was and is, a common substance with which to load many brass cartridges. It's pressure charecteristics should not preclude it's use in almost any cartridge designed for smokeless powder. Of course one would have to be prudent about the loading but your story does not necessarily lay blame on the black powder without considering other possibilities, such as an obstructed bore or perhaps the wrong cartridge inserted into the rifle.

I can see where such a tradgedy would linger in your mind over the years but from a students point of view I have to wonder what really happened....Black powder is generally much less volitile and slower burning than smokeless. It is so slow to burn that one can hardly overload a black powder rifle.

Is it possible you obtained some other powder like flash powder? Just a curiosity that leads to a mystery. Thanks for relating your experience. Jerry Burney

[wterrell]

Jerry, I do not know that the powder was of any use in a muzzle loader or any type of brass casing. Its use was for separating small parts of the world from the main globe.

[lugerholsterrepair]

I understand, Hope you were not injured. A sad ending for a Winchester lever action. Thanks. Jerry

[unspellable]

Black gunpowder is made up of charcoal, sulfer, and potassium nitrate (saltpetre). Blasting powder substitutes sodium nitrate for the potassium nitrate, primarily because it's cheaper. I have never heard of any great difference between black gunpowder and blasting powder for blowing things up other than the cost. I would not think blasting powder per se would be the cause of the problem. Unless perhaps, it was very much too fine grained.

There could be a number of causes, air space in the cartridge, bore obstruction, flawed rifle, etc.

But then you never know. In my teenage years my buddy blew up his 22 LR rifle by loading a cartrdige with firecracker powder. Didn't do nearly as much damage as in Wes's case. I suspect the stuff in fire crackers is not black gunpowder.

[wterrell]

firecrackers are made with black powder as is blasting powder. I do not know the composition of the powder that I used. I am guessing that the additional rounds were ignited by shock.
All I can suggest is that you fellers give it a go and load up a few rounds.
Leave your Lugers to me in your will.

[Johnny C. Kitchens]

One thing I was taught is that black powder is an explosive. Given a chance it will detonate. While smokeless powder is a mild explosive, it is harder to get an explosion due to its progressive burning characteristics. The faster burning smokeless powders can be used as explosives, but they are still mild compared to a black powder explosion. Many years ago, or is it decades, I read of a test where cans of smokeless powder, and cans of black powder were engulfed in flames so that they could be compared for safety reasons. The smokeless powder would simply burst the container open usually along the seem and then burns away. Someone needs to repeat the test with modern plastic containers. The black powder detonated and threw burning debris in all sorts of directions...

[Arvin]

This is a good topic, but there are a few things wrong. Black powder doesn't produce enough pressure to blow up a gun. Black powder produces less pressure than smokeless powder. That is why they say don't use smokeless powder in a muzzle loader. Now if you use blasting powder instead of black powder I could see a problem. But then again I don't know anyone willing to try loading ammo with blasting powder to find out. I have handloaded alot of ammo and I know that you can safely load black powder into any cartridge and the only thing you have to worry about is clean up and a really anemic sounding round. I would have to say that that Winchester died a horrible and very foolish way. Thanks Arvin

[Ron Wood]

I really don't know too much about black powder, but I believe it comes in different grades and burning rates. The designations are something like ffg, fffg and ffffg as near as I can recall. I think that ffffg is very fine, fast burning and potentially dangerously explosive in quite small amounts. I think it was used as the priming charge for flintlock weapons. That more than exhausts my knowledge of the subject. Somebody jump in here that can straighten me out.

[unspellable]

Black powder can cause grief if there is an air space between it and the bullet. It must always be loaded as a slightly compressed charge with no air space. Squib loads in cartridges require wads to fill the air space.

The powder I have seen in firecrackers does not even look like black gunpowder.

[G.W. Gill]

Unspellable has noted the only scenario that would result in a catastrophic event. Tests during the U.S. War Between The States by both sides only resulted in in a blow torch type effect out of the nipple.( The Rifled Musket 1958 by Claud E. Fuller). These combat pressured men loaded and did not put on the percussion cap up to a dozen times. All that happened was a sharp flame out of the nipple. It did not matter whether it was an iron (1842) or steel (1861) barrel. Heroes all.

[Johnny C. Kitchens]

Wes, the link in your message appears not to work. Get an error message saying document cannot be found on server...