New member needs help with 1st purchase

[99-9x]

Hello to all.Just returned from looking at 2 Lugers a friend wants to sell.I am at a loss as to what they are worth and a value.Here is what he has.#1 is a 1916 ERFURT 9mm every part is matching-extractor,toggle,sideplate,takedown lever,barrel,saftey.Finish is about 85% but a dull blue.The parts that are usually straw colored are also blue.Grips may be replacement(wood) as they seem too new for the pistol.Bore is average with some pitting/dark,rifling is strong.Has small markings on side of frame/barrel,front of trigger.Mag is wood bottom,blued,plastic follower.Looks like a replacement of good quality.#2 is a 1916 DMW,all parts are matching,straw color on takedown lever,trigger,mag release is strong.Bore is even better,grips are very good and origional.2mags 1 is nickle/wood bottom says GERMANY,2ND is blue with aluminum bottom.The pistol shows 85/90% finish.Now the bad news,his father in law ground the stock lug off this gun,thought I would cry.Was advised to do this by a gunsmith in the 60`s,why I do not know.Bottom line is seller wants $800.00.Price is firm,no trades.Sorry this is long but told you all I can remember.Need to know what to do as he wants to sell and I have first shot at purchase.Thanks and Happy New Year,Dave

[Edward Tinker]

Dave, is this $800 *each* or $800 for both?

for both is a good deal

From the description, #1 is a shooter (reblue as Herb said) probably worth $450-$550? And #2, being a "shooter" is worth at least $350 and many times you see shooters go for $500 - $550?

A 2nd magazine by itself is worth $50 - $125 on e-bay, so judge yourself, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

During the 1960's many people were told that it was illegal to have a stock lug attached to a Luger, so since a stock lug made it possible, they thought it wise to grind them off...

Ed

[drbuster]

Both of these guns are shooters. If he wants $800 for both, then it's a good deal. The parts alone from both of these lugers are worth more. The stock lug was ground off possibly because of a vague law interpretation in the 1960's of not having a luger with the possiblity of attaching a shoulder stock as it would then be an illegal "rifle". It is still illegal unless the barrel is over 11-12 inches (?). The Erfurt has been reblued. The Germany marked magazine is probably from a 1920 era commercial luger. Happy New Year to you, also.

[Dwight Gruber]

Dave,

You pose an interesting circumstance here, and provide an opportunity to engage in an interesting--and hopefully, fruitful--discussion.

Why do you want to buy a Luger? What are your expectations? Are you looking for a gun to shoot, are you looking for a Luger to begin a collection, are you looking for an example simply to own and consider?

Neither gun is particularly uncommom, estimated production of Erfurts in 1916 was 80,000 units, 1916 DWM estimated at 140,000. The fact that both guns are matching is a plus.

From your description neither Luger is collection-quality. Blued small parts on the Erfurt indicate that it has been reblued. As you recognize, the ground stock lug of the DWM is tragic, and absent other unique qualities eliminates its collectibility as well (many Lugers had their stock lugs ground under the erronious belief that they were illegal).

The Germany marked magazine is probably an original Commercial magazine, the blued tube/aluminum-bottom mag dates from 1936.

If you have not shot a Luger, you will not yet have experienced just how marvellously they shoot, and how accurate. Both guns are probably excellent to shoot.

$800 ($400 apiece, give-or-take) is probably a realistic full price for these two Lugers. To re-sell them for a higher price would be difficult, given the condition you describe--it could happen, but it might take a long time to find a buyer.

Provided the Erfurt was not buffed to death at its first reblue, it may be a good candidate for restoration. It would then have the value of its cost to you plus the cost of restoration--it will still not be collection worthy, but it might be a pretty nice piece. The DWM will, sadly, never be more than a nice-shooting gun.

If your desire is to start a collection, you can find a collection-quality Luger--which will increase in value over time--for your $800.

It sounds like you have found an interesting way to start your new year. Good luck, and let us all know what you end up doing.

--Dwight

[Steve Richards]

I agree with Dwight. If you want a pair to shoot and have in your hand while you read books and learn, they are worth the price. If you want a collector grade, pass. If I was starting. I would buy them, get some books and use them as study aids and have fun shooting them and learning how to take them apart and see how they work.

For books, I would start with the E-books by Henrotin. They are less than $9.00 each and listed in the Links and resources on the left side of the screen. For the price of the entire set, they are a great way to start learning.

Steve

[Russ]

Very sound advice
Russ

[99-9x]

Hello Gentlemen,Thank you for the replies.I went ahead with the deal.Bottom line was a 760 Remington pump (official deer rifle of Pa.) and $500.00.The DWM is in really nice shape and will make an excellant shooter.The Erfurt on closer examination appears to have been cold blued.It has not been buffed.I will try to have someone post pictures for your opinion.Overall I think I did OK,will fire them this weekend.I must say again thank you for the kind help you have offered.Have also taken your advice regarding the books.Thanks again,Dave

[99-9x]

Had to add the 760 came into the picture when he decided on getting a rifle for his wife.I had a nice 6mm that she liked.So much the better.Thanks again.Dave

[Edward Tinker]

Dave, I have been told that cold blue will come off easily? don't know if it stains, I think there was a thread on this a long time ago, but if cold blue comes off and it wasn't actually "reblued", then maybe its a low-end collector

[Roadkill]

Ed, does that mean if I scrape the hair off my ugly dog it will make him a low end pure bread? Damn hound has learned that when he trees a squirrel that if he sits out there and yaps loud and long enough I'll go out and shoot it just to make him shut up, then he gets fresh rodent. Night before last he treed a possum, got po'd when I wouldn't let him have it. I'll be damned if I reward him for dragging me out of bed at one am into the woods wearing nothing but boots and bvds with a flashlight and a 12ga double barrel. I gotta go, deer season is wide open and I want at least two more. Been going twice a day and they do taste good: sauerbraten,kartoffelklosse, bauernbrot and deutsches bier. Later ya'll.

rk

[Edward Tinker]

I was under the impression that cold blue was in reality just a temp staining?

I don't mind being corrected if wrong?

Ed

[Navy]

RK,

Based on my admittedly minor observations of your hounds while I was so fortunate to enjoy your hospitality in Huntsgaritaville, I think I can say that nothing, nada, ninguno, zip, zero, null is gonna make them hounds into pure bred. But, I ask, as I contemplate the world with a wee dram of Jefferson, why would anyone want to?

The genius and success of America is embodied in your ugly dogs. We are all mongerels to one degree or another. Just some of us mongerels have been on the block longer than others, like it matters.

Think about it.

Have an article from DWF that I really need a good translation for (to?); pls send me your mailing addy by private message and will send it along; I will, of course, send a presento to both you and frau for the effort.

And finally, thanks so much for making my stay in Huntsville so very much nicer. You, your lovely wife, and your ROTC outfit have done a great deal to make that corner of the world a much better place.

Tom A.

[Roadkill]

Tom, pm sent. Thanks for the kind words. Check this out:

http://gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=14744047

rk

[JohnB]

JohnB, if I ever see anything like this on the forum again, I will request that John Dunkle ban you.

Politics is bad enough, crap is crap.

Ed

[policeluger]

How did we go from a 1916 Erfurt to this?

ADMIN Note: policeluger was referring to a message that I deleted.

Thanks pl (Howard),

Ed

[Dwight Gruber]

Dave,

The devolution of this conversation notwithstanding, I look forward to seeing pictures of your two new Lugers.

--Dwight

[99-9x]

Hello Dwight,working on getting a camera and will post pictures.Have to say in reading alot of different threads the knowledge this site provides to newcomers is infinite.Thanks for making me feel welcome,Dave

[JohnB]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">JohnB, if I ever see anything like this on the forum again, I will request that John Dunkle ban you.

Politics is bad enough, crap is crap.

Ed </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Can't debate it, eh? So you must ban me. Truth is truth; only deceivers and those deceived try to silence dissent.

Think about it.

[John D.]

Hope you enjoyed your stay. You are gone. Spew your hate crap on another website - I don't have the patience...

[Edward Tinker]

We won't hear from JohnB on this forum, but the question remains; Does politics belong on a forum like this?

Sure, if the forum is set up that way, I personally prefer not to go to sites that have flame wars and politics. Hell, if I wanted that I'll turn on TV, political (as in the thread on Nazi's is pushing this sites decorum, but racist remarks irritate the hell out of me, and as long as JD allows me to be a moderator, they won't cut it here. <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" />

And I personally know and believe that JD, Dok and John Sabato won't put up with it either.

Ed