Regarding Freckling~

cirelaw · 08-17-2017, 02:12 PM

Joe Salter has a pretty 1920 luger carbine for sale~ https://www.joesalter.com/category/p...ine-Model-1920 He mentions "Freckling" and at a particular place on the gun.What is it? What causes it? Can it be prevented or removed? Who much do it affect the overall value? Eric Thank You!!

sheepherder · 08-17-2017, 02:43 PM

He mentions it is 'a few tiny spots' in the grooves of the rifling. IMO it would not detract from the carbine in any way. I'm pretty sure I would not even notice it, or care if I did.

Norme · 08-17-2017, 02:56 PM

"Freckling" is a dealer's euphemism for rust.
Norm

cirelaw · 08-17-2017, 02:58 PM

Luger acne!!

Ron Wood · 08-17-2017, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

Luger acne!!

More like rash.

DonVoigt · 08-17-2017, 05:46 PM

Freckling- usually used to describe spots in finish that look like "negative" freckles = missing finish
may be caused by rust or a fine spray of strong acid or base; rust

Frosting- usually used to describe a topping on a cake or cupcake; in describing a luger bore a
euphemism for rust; rust

JMHO,

cirelaw · 08-17-2017, 06:32 PM

What is the primary cause!!!Ammo or lack of care? I often see it noticed on the end of the barrel! Is that where it appears or where its most noticed?

cirelaw · 08-17-2017, 07:04 PM

Heres how another forum deals with it!! http://www.coltforum.com/forums/colt...-clean-up.html

cirelaw · 08-17-2017, 07:11 PM

Another~https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J41c-uWChmM

4 Scale · 08-17-2017, 07:31 PM

The whole idea behind using mild abrasives like 0000 steel wool is that browish/reddish rust is much softer than a blued surface. I have verified under a microscope that rust on Lugers is in fact quite soft - almost like a powder loosely attached to the surface, and that blue has far higher resistance to mild abrasion.

The trick is to use light pressure and lubricant with whatever abrasive you select, so that there is not enough pressure to damage the original blue. As Eric's video above shows, different abrasives are available. Cloth, polishing compound and 0000 steel wool are all types of abrasives from mild to more aggressive.

As rust progresses pits form and begin increasing in depth. IMO the difference between freckling and pitting is simply depth. As pits progress in depth, steel wool and similar simply cannot get to the bottom of the depression to remove the loose rust.

DonVoigt · 08-17-2017, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

What is the primary cause!!!Ammo or lack of care? I often see it noticed on the end of the barrel! Is that where it appears or where its most noticed?

Poor storage, lack of care, neglect, not enough oil, etc., etc.,

Sergio Natali · 08-18-2017, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norme

"Freckling" is a dealer's euphemism for rust.
Norm

Norme you nailed it;, these euphemisms are funny though, like just recently here somebody called it: "nice age patina" ... unfortunately on guns rust never sleeps

Thor · 08-18-2017, 11:38 AM

It is interesting that the finish on early Lugers is/was rust bluing.

Ron Wood · 08-18-2017, 12:23 PM

I have often wondered that if you encountered a gun with patches of light powdery red rust and not significantly pitted, if you de-greased it and boiled the part to change the oxide, once it was carded would it turn out reasonably good looking? Food for thought maybe.
Ron

cirelaw · 08-18-2017, 02:34 PM

The Difference Between Original Blue And Reblued~

cirelaw · 08-18-2017, 06:29 PM

Were Luger cleaner kits issued to German troops like the Swiss?

cirelaw · 08-18-2017, 10:17 PM

Ted without searching somewhere, whats the difference with rust bluing as opposed to?

alanint · 08-19-2017, 07:37 AM

Salt Blueing. Salt blueing is a hot, chemical process, as opposed to controlled oxidation. I suspect that your second Erfurt has been Salt Blued, Eric. That's why it looks shinier and darker than your original. A quality rust blueing would have made the second pistol look much more like your original, albeit darker, given a finish with no age wear.

Thor · 08-19-2017, 08:59 AM

I believe alanint is spot on. I too looked at that barrel and thought salt blued. The interior of both should be in the white steel, like one of them displays. A lot of times if it is a "bubba blue" , the edges would be rounded too much and the safety not painted in. When you look at the flat surfaces, they wont look "flat" but wavy reflecting light. A bubba blue is easy to spot, yours looks better than that, but a reblue for certain. Also, they should have a rainbow or step strawing/fire blue color on the top of the hold open, not the spring that should be white.

cirelaw · 08-19-2017, 09:00 AM

Thank You My Friend~

08-17-2017, 02:12 PM	#1
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Regarding Freckling~ Joe Salter has a pretty 1920 luger carbine for sale~ https://www.joesalter.com/category/p...ine-Model-1920 He mentions "Freckling" and at a particular place on the gun.What is it? What causes it? Can it be prevented or removed? Who much do it affect the overall value? Eric Thank You!!

08-17-2017, 02:43 PM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	He mentions it is 'a few tiny spots' in the grooves of the rifling. IMO it would not detract from the carbine in any way. I'm pretty sure I would not even notice it, or care if I did. __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

08-17-2017, 05:46 PM	#6
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,678 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	Freckling- usually used to describe spots in finish that look like "negative" freckles = missing finish may be caused by rust or a fine spray of strong acid or base; rust Frosting- usually used to describe a topping on a cake or cupcake; in describing a luger bore a euphemism for rust; rust JMHO, __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

08-17-2017, 07:11 PM	#9
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Another~https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J41c-uWChmM Attached Thumbnails

08-18-2017, 11:38 AM	#13
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	It is interesting that the finish on early Lugers is/was rust bluing. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

08-17-2017, 02:56 PM	#3
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,416 Thanks: 225 Thanked 2,594 Times in 931 Posts	"Freckling" is a dealer's euphemism for rust. Norm

08-17-2017, 02:58 PM	#4
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Luger acne!!

08-17-2017, 06:32 PM	#7
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	What is the primary cause!!!Ammo or lack of care? I often see it noticed on the end of the barrel! Is that where it appears or where its most noticed?

08-17-2017, 07:04 PM	#8
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Heres how another forum deals with it!! http://www.coltforum.com/forums/colt...-clean-up.html

08-17-2017, 07:31 PM	#10
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	The whole idea behind using mild abrasives like 0000 steel wool is that browish/reddish rust is much softer than a blued surface. I have verified under a microscope that rust on Lugers is in fact quite soft - almost like a powder loosely attached to the surface, and that blue has far higher resistance to mild abrasion. The trick is to use light pressure and lubricant with whatever abrasive you select, so that there is not enough pressure to damage the original blue. As Eric's video above shows, different abrasives are available. Cloth, polishing compound and 0000 steel wool are all types of abrasives from mild to more aggressive. As rust progresses pits form and begin increasing in depth. IMO the difference between freckling and pitting is simply depth. As pits progress in depth, steel wool and similar simply cannot get to the bottom of the depression to remove the loose rust.

08-18-2017, 12:23 PM	#14
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,992 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,104 Times in 1,679 Posts	I have often wondered that if you encountered a gun with patches of light powdery red rust and not significantly pitted, if you de-greased it and boiled the part to change the oxide, once it was carded would it turn out reasonably good looking? Food for thought maybe. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-18-2017, 02:34 PM	#15
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	The Difference Between Original Blue And Reblued~ Attached Thumbnails

08-18-2017, 06:29 PM	#16
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Were Luger cleaner kits issued to German troops like the Swiss? Attached Thumbnails

08-18-2017, 10:17 PM	#17
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Ted without searching somewhere, whats the difference with rust bluing as opposed to?

08-19-2017, 07:37 AM	#18
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Salt Blueing. Salt blueing is a hot, chemical process, as opposed to controlled oxidation. I suspect that your second Erfurt has been Salt Blued, Eric. That's why it looks shinier and darker than your original. A quality rust blueing would have made the second pistol look much more like your original, albeit darker, given a finish with no age wear.

08-19-2017, 08:59 AM	#19
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I believe alanint is spot on. I too looked at that barrel and thought salt blued. The interior of both should be in the white steel, like one of them displays. A lot of times if it is a "bubba blue" , the edges would be rounded too much and the safety not painted in. When you look at the flat surfaces, they wont look "flat" but wavy reflecting light. A bubba blue is easy to spot, yours looks better than that, but a reblue for certain. Also, they should have a rainbow or step strawing/fire blue color on the top of the hold open, not the spring that should be white. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

08-19-2017, 09:00 AM	#20
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Thank You My Friend~