2 US Test Eagles...

Pete Ebbink · 11-23-2005, 06:33 PM

Hey Ron Wood,

Here are two (2) US Test Eagle AE lugers for your List...unfortunately...they are on the same gun...but I noticed you had not previously recorded guns # 6876 and # 7053...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=40621006

Ron Wood · 11-24-2005, 12:07 AM

Thanks Pete. I haven't published a complete updated list in some time so perhaps I do have those numbers...and perhaps not. Sarah and I are enjoying the Thanksgiving holiday in Tempe, AZ (Phoenix area) with our daughter. I will check the list next week when I get back home. Hope you and yours, as well as the rest of the LugerForum family have a wonderful Thanksgiving.

Dwight Gruber · 11-24-2005, 12:24 AM

Pete,

Thanks for pointing this out. A very interesting aspect of this gun is that -both- numbers fall within the contiguous part of the Bannerman series, so the mismatch occurred -after- the Government auction.

--Dwight

Edward Tinker · 11-24-2005, 12:26 AM

unless those two / four parts got mixed.

that would explain both numbers on the listing,

Ed

drbuster · 11-24-2005, 09:29 AM

Test Eagle 6984 was for sale at Ralph Shattuck's table at the recent Reno show. Is this on Ron's list?

Edward Tinker · 11-24-2005, 09:31 AM

yes, here is Ron's "older" listing;

Pete Ebbink · 11-24-2005, 10:45 AM

Doc,

Ron's Lists (in and out-of-range lists) are always posted in the Member Gallery on page 5...

Ron Wood · 11-24-2005, 11:04 AM

I would not be at all surprised if Bannerman made the mismatch. I suspect that a lot of switching and cannibalization took place in order to make servicable pieces to sell. But, we will never know.

drbuster · 11-24-2005, 01:09 PM

Thanks Pete and Ed, Happy Thanksgiving to you both (also Ron). What are the red asterisks for by some of the serial numbers?

Pete Ebbink · 11-24-2005, 01:41 PM

Those were originally on the Bannermann sales list (I think M. Reese noted those as well on his List...).

Ron Wood · 11-24-2005, 02:27 PM

Actually, they aren't the Bannerman purchase numbers but are the numbers originally listed by Mike Reese in his book as known surviving Test Lugers. That is the list that got me started recording surviving Test serial numbers and the list has expanded considerably since then!

Pete Ebbink · 11-25-2005, 12:56 PM

Hi Ron,

Sorry for my misunderstanding about the red *'s...

Did the list of TE Reese listed in his 1st. edition book grow in number to the guns listed in his 2nd. edition book ? I do not have a copy of his 2nd. edition. He only lists 34 TE lugers in the 1st. edition.

I have the 1st. edition (hardback, special 1000 book issue, book # 6336) and wondered if more TE's were added to the Reese list at the 2nd. printing...your red *'s total to 85 or so...so I assume the Reese list in the 2nd. book did grow.

Ron Wood · 11-25-2005, 01:09 PM

Pete,
I don't have any books with me, but I believe he eventually listed around 85 or so Test Eagles in his last printing.

Dwight Gruber · 11-25-2005, 01:23 PM

He lists 90, but limits himself to a range between 6100-7097.

--Dwight

maddog350gt · 11-27-2005, 08:15 PM

Ron,

I know that it was stated that this was an old list of your test eagles but I noticed that neither of my test eagles were on it. They may be on your latter list but if not here they are, 6437 and 7857. I know this last one is a high number even for the "out of range" test eagles, but there is no germany stamp on the gun. Dwight Gruber has looked at it and he feels it should be considered a test eagle; at least until proven otherwise. I'll let you decide if you want to include it in your list.

Bye the way did you go to Reno in November? Are you planning to go in April?

Bob M.

Edward Tinker · 11-27-2005, 08:43 PM

sorry mad dog Bob, but I think the listing I posted was from 2003!

I am sure there is a newer one on this forum.

Ed

Pete Ebbink · 11-27-2005, 08:48 PM

Ron's Lists (in and out-of-range lists) are always posted in the Member Gallery on page 5...

maddog350gt · 11-28-2005, 08:49 PM

Pete;

I thought I had given these to Ron some time ago (6437 & 7857), but maybe I only gave them to Dwight. They are not on the list on page 5 of the members gallery.

Bob M.

Ron Wood · 11-28-2005, 09:34 PM

Bob,
You gave them to Dwight, but he passed them on to me...thanks. I just haven't updated the list for a while. Maybe after the holidays.

R.David · 01-05-2006, 01:19 AM

Ron: I gave this information to Dwight and showed him the gun, but here it is anyway: I am the current caretaker of American Eagle Luger # 6197. It has all matching numbers and the takedown lever is numbered on the round end on the right side. It has a type II safety lever, and no "Germany" or proof marks. Blue and straw are very good, and there is no obvious sign of polishing or refinishing and there are signs of holster wear. However, the machined area under the safety lever appears to be partially blue, maybe just oxidized, so ???? The magazine that came with it has the wood bottom, and no markings whatsoever. The seller of the gun told me that it came from the collection of Herbert A. Lyman of Los Angeles. He also told me that it was consecutively numbered to the one in the Springfield Armory's collection, but I suspect he was confused with the Bannerman list. Best wishes for a Happy New Year to all. Regards, R. David

11-23-2005, 06:33 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	2 US Test Eagles... Hey Ron Wood, Here are two (2) US Test Eagle AE lugers for your List...unfortunately...they are on the same gun...but I noticed you had not previously recorded guns # 6876 and # 7053... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=40621006

11-24-2005, 12:07 AM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,017 Thanks: 1,089 Thanked 5,164 Times in 1,700 Posts	Thanks Pete. I haven't published a complete updated list in some time so perhaps I do have those numbers...and perhaps not. Sarah and I are enjoying the Thanksgiving holiday in Tempe, AZ (Phoenix area) with our daughter. I will check the list next week when I get back home. Hope you and yours, as well as the rest of the LugerForum family have a wonderful Thanksgiving. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-24-2005, 12:26 AM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,928 Thanks: 2,028 Thanked 4,525 Times in 2,090 Posts	unless those two / four parts got mixed. that would explain both numbers on the listing, Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-24-2005, 09:31 AM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,928 Thanks: 2,028 Thanked 4,525 Times in 2,090 Posts	yes, here is Ron's "older" listing; Attached Thumbnails

11-24-2005, 11:04 AM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,017 Thanks: 1,089 Thanked 5,164 Times in 1,700 Posts	I would not be at all surprised if Bannerman made the mismatch. I suspect that a lot of switching and cannibalization took place in order to make servicable pieces to sell. But, we will never know. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-24-2005, 12:24 AM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,899 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,307 Times in 429 Posts	Pete, Thanks for pointing this out. A very interesting aspect of this gun is that -both- numbers fall within the contiguous part of the Bannerman series, so the mismatch occurred -after- the Government auction. --Dwight

11-24-2005, 09:29 AM	#5
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Test Eagle 6984 was for sale at Ralph Shattuck's table at the recent Reno show. Is this on Ron's list?

11-24-2005, 10:45 AM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Doc, Ron's Lists (in and out-of-range lists) are always posted in the Member Gallery on page 5...

11-24-2005, 01:09 PM	#9
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Thanks Pete and Ed, Happy Thanksgiving to you both (also Ron). What are the red asterisks for by some of the serial numbers?

11-24-2005, 01:41 PM	#10
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Those were originally on the Bannermann sales list (I think M. Reese noted those as well on his List...).

11-24-2005, 02:27 PM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,017 Thanks: 1,089 Thanked 5,164 Times in 1,700 Posts	Actually, they aren't the Bannerman purchase numbers but are the numbers originally listed by Mike Reese in his book as known surviving Test Lugers. That is the list that got me started recording surviving Test serial numbers and the list has expanded considerably since then! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-25-2005, 12:56 PM	#12
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Ron, Sorry for my misunderstanding about the red 's... Did the list of TE Reese listed in his 1st. edition book grow in number to the guns listed in his 2nd. edition book ? I do not have a copy of his 2nd. edition. He only lists 34 TE lugers in the 1st. edition. I have the 1st. edition (hardback, special 1000 book issue, book # 6336) and wondered if more TE's were added to the Reese list at the 2nd. printing...your red 's total to 85 or so...so I assume the Reese list in the 2nd. book did grow.

11-25-2005, 01:09 PM	#13
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,017 Thanks: 1,089 Thanked 5,164 Times in 1,700 Posts	Pete, I don't have any books with me, but I believe he eventually listed around 85 or so Test Eagles in his last printing. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-25-2005, 01:23 PM	#14
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,899 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,307 Times in 429 Posts	He lists 90, but limits himself to a range between 6100-7097. --Dwight

11-27-2005, 08:15 PM	#15
maddog350gt User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Washougal WA Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Ron, I know that it was stated that this was an old list of your test eagles but I noticed that neither of my test eagles were on it. They may be on your latter list but if not here they are, 6437 and 7857. I know this last one is a high number even for the "out of range" test eagles, but there is no germany stamp on the gun. Dwight Gruber has looked at it and he feels it should be considered a test eagle; at least until proven otherwise. I'll let you decide if you want to include it in your list. Bye the way did you go to Reno in November? Are you planning to go in April? Bob M.

11-27-2005, 08:43 PM	#16
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,928 Thanks: 2,028 Thanked 4,525 Times in 2,090 Posts	sorry mad dog Bob, but I think the listing I posted was from 2003! I am sure there is a newer one on this forum. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-27-2005, 08:48 PM	#17
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Ron's Lists (in and out-of-range lists) are always posted in the Member Gallery on page 5...

11-28-2005, 08:49 PM	#18
maddog350gt User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Washougal WA Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Pete; I thought I had given these to Ron some time ago (6437 & 7857), but maybe I only gave them to Dwight. They are not on the list on page 5 of the members gallery. Bob M.

11-28-2005, 09:34 PM	#19
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,017 Thanks: 1,089 Thanked 5,164 Times in 1,700 Posts	Bob, You gave them to Dwight, but he passed them on to me...thanks. I just haven't updated the list for a while. Maybe after the holidays. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-05-2006, 01:19 AM	#20
R.David User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lake Oswego, Oregon Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ron: I gave this information to Dwight and showed him the gun, but here it is anyway: I am the current caretaker of American Eagle Luger # 6197. It has all matching numbers and the takedown lever is numbered on the round end on the right side. It has a type II safety lever, and no "Germany" or proof marks. Blue and straw are very good, and there is no obvious sign of polishing or refinishing and there are signs of holster wear. However, the machined area under the safety lever appears to be partially blue, maybe just oxidized, so ???? The magazine that came with it has the wood bottom, and no markings whatsoever. The seller of the gun told me that it came from the collection of Herbert A. Lyman of Los Angeles. He also told me that it was consecutively numbered to the one in the Springfield Armory's collection, but I suspect he was confused with the Bannerman list. Best wishes for a Happy New Year to all. Regards, R. David