1916 DWM Artillery Luger with British proofs

thegundude · 06-13-2005, 01:38 PM

Is this right? Wouldn't a 1916 manufacture have a strawed trigger, et al?

And that barrel looks kind of odd too. Strange looking blue, compared to the rest of the pistol.

1916 British proof Luger

John Sabato · 06-13-2005, 02:00 PM

Steve... you gotta read the whole ad:

"Description: 1916 DWM Artillery Luger with British proofs and "superb refinish "

You are correct that The original finish would have included strawed small parts...

Steve71 · 06-13-2005, 02:44 PM

I know what a Bristish proof is but does a British proof make any difference on the collection value?

thegundude · 06-13-2005, 02:51 PM

Thanks John. No wonder it's so cheap then...

Funny how I read "superb finish", not refinish.... Goes to show you really have to read closely when buying these things.

thegundude · 06-13-2005, 02:53 PM

Steve71, if it's a design Luger, as they say, then the British proof marks should make it fairly valuable. It's my guess that if it wasn't refinished it would be worth a great deal more money.... The Brits never adopted or manufactured the Luger, only tested it.

George Anderson · 06-13-2005, 03:40 PM

British proofed Lugers are fairly common, some having been proofed as Vet bring-backs but also quite a few were proofed later in life as they moved through Great Britain on their way to the States. This latter group was in the hands of an American importer, maybe Interarms.

If anything, their value is diminished a bit in the US.

John Sabato · 06-13-2005, 03:56 PM

I would have to see some serious provenance documentation to support the "story" that it was some kind of design model of historical signifignace... otherwise, it is just selling hype... for a refinished pistol... to elevate the price to an unsuspecting buyer.

thegundude · 06-13-2005, 04:35 PM

Yeah, that's the way it looked to me too.

Never buy the story, just the gun. ;-)

Edward Tinker · 06-13-2005, 05:03 PM

unless it's MY story, then it must be believable!

Steve71 · 06-13-2005, 05:07 PM

So what is the right thing to do on a "reblue" gun? You're right, I don't think the story matters. I presume a guy would just keep it for a shooter, but 2K for a shooter seems unwise. My guess is that it would be a good one for Thor to strip and do a "refinish" on. I'm just trying to think of options if a guy doesn't have that "perfect" gun. What do you guys think?

Steve

Edward Tinker · 06-13-2005, 05:14 PM

All depends.... if a "rarer" variation, i.e. I bought a Simson police from a LF member, and paid more for it, you simply don't see Simson Police lugers. An artillery or navy reblue, you simply don't see them as often as a 4 inch, so folks are willing to pay more for them. If refinished well, then that makes a difference too.

To me, I would rather have a rougher shape gun than a reblue, but then you kinda get tired of that rough shaped lugnut and I can see why folks would want it refinished!

Ed

thegundude · 06-13-2005, 05:15 PM

Me? I'm passing.

As you say, it's a tad high for a shooter. Then add another $500 + for a refurb.... That's a $2,500 shooter. It would be a pretty shooter, but a shooter regardless.

Edward Tinker · 06-13-2005, 05:27 PM

Steve, might as well drop $2500 on a nice, clean arty eh?

Steve71 · 06-13-2005, 05:42 PM

Ed,

I suspect you are right? Back to shopping

Steve

thegundude · 06-14-2005, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Steve, might as well drop $2500 on a nice, clean arty eh?

Exact-a-mundo!

thegundude · 06-14-2005, 07:41 PM

It's shown up again, this time on GunBroker...

British proofed Artillary

zinfull · 06-14-2005, 10:48 PM

It is still up on GunsAmerica....

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976590796.htm

$1995

I guess he is fishing with more than one rod.

Ron Smith · 06-14-2005, 11:22 PM

The seller can't even commit to a name for his business. He's playing the field there too. "North-Dixie"? This guy would be one to shy away from. Not that he's not an honest dealer, But............

Ask my friend George Anderson if there's a North Dixie... and then duck.

thegundude · 06-15-2005, 07:40 AM

LOL Ron!! I live in North Carolina. Some of the people here even resent the word "North" in the name of their state....

06-13-2005, 01:38 PM	#1
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	1916 DWM Artillery Luger with British proofs Is this right? Wouldn't a 1916 manufacture have a strawed trigger, et al? And that barrel looks kind of odd too. Strange looking blue, compared to the rest of the pistol. 1916 British proof Luger __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

06-13-2005, 02:00 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Steve... you gotta read the whole ad: "Description: 1916 DWM Artillery Luger with British proofs and "superb refinish " You are correct that The original finish would have included strawed small parts... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-13-2005, 02:44 PM	#3
Steve71 User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sumner, Wa. Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I know what a Bristish proof is but does a British proof make any difference on the collection value? __________________ "Hey soldier, don't forget to pick up the Lugers. Someday, they'll be worth a lot of money".

06-13-2005, 02:51 PM	#4
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	Thanks John. No wonder it's so cheap then... Funny how I read "superb finish", not refinish.... Goes to show you really have to read closely when buying these things. __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

06-13-2005, 02:53 PM	#5
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	Steve71, if it's a design Luger, as they say, then the British proof marks should make it fairly valuable. It's my guess that if it wasn't refinished it would be worth a great deal more money.... The Brits never adopted or manufactured the Luger, only tested it. __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

06-13-2005, 03:40 PM	#6
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	British proofed Lugers are fairly common, some having been proofed as Vet bring-backs but also quite a few were proofed later in life as they moved through Great Britain on their way to the States. This latter group was in the hands of an American importer, maybe Interarms. If anything, their value is diminished a bit in the US.

06-13-2005, 03:56 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I would have to see some serious provenance documentation to support the "story" that it was some kind of design model of historical signifignace... otherwise, it is just selling hype... for a refinished pistol... to elevate the price to an unsuspecting buyer. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-13-2005, 04:35 PM	#8
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	Yeah, that's the way it looked to me too. Never buy the story, just the gun. ;-) __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

06-13-2005, 05:03 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,927 Thanks: 2,026 Thanked 4,525 Times in 2,090 Posts	unless it's MY story, then it must be believable! __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-13-2005, 05:07 PM	#10
Steve71 User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sumner, Wa. Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	So what is the right thing to do on a "reblue" gun? You're right, I don't think the story matters. I presume a guy would just keep it for a shooter, but 2K for a shooter seems unwise. My guess is that it would be a good one for Thor to strip and do a "refinish" on. I'm just trying to think of options if a guy doesn't have that "perfect" gun. What do you guys think? Steve __________________ "Hey soldier, don't forget to pick up the Lugers. Someday, they'll be worth a lot of money".

06-13-2005, 05:14 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,927 Thanks: 2,026 Thanked 4,525 Times in 2,090 Posts	All depends.... if a "rarer" variation, i.e. I bought a Simson police from a LF member, and paid more for it, you simply don't see Simson Police lugers. An artillery or navy reblue, you simply don't see them as often as a 4 inch, so folks are willing to pay more for them. If refinished well, then that makes a difference too. To me, I would rather have a rougher shape gun than a reblue, but then you kinda get tired of that rough shaped lugnut and I can see why folks would want it refinished! Ed

06-13-2005, 05:15 PM	#12
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	Me? I'm passing. As you say, it's a tad high for a shooter. Then add another $500 + for a refurb.... That's a $2,500 shooter. It would be a pretty shooter, but a shooter regardless. __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

06-13-2005, 05:27 PM	#13
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,927 Thanks: 2,026 Thanked 4,525 Times in 2,090 Posts	Steve, might as well drop $2500 on a nice, clean arty eh?

06-13-2005, 05:42 PM	#14
Steve71 User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sumner, Wa. Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed, I suspect you are right? Back to shopping Steve __________________ "Hey soldier, don't forget to pick up the Lugers. Someday, they'll be worth a lot of money".

06-14-2005, 07:41 PM	#16
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	It's shown up again, this time on GunBroker... British proofed Artillary __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

06-14-2005, 10:48 PM	#17
zinfull Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sonoma County CA Posts: 243 Thanks: 5 Thanked 33 Times in 16 Posts	It is still up on GunsAmerica.... http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976590796.htm $1995 I guess he is fishing with more than one rod.

06-14-2005, 11:22 PM	#18
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	The seller can't even commit to a name for his business. He's playing the field there too. "North-Dixie"? This guy would be one to shy away from. Not that he's not an honest dealer, But............ Ask my friend George Anderson if there's a North Dixie... and then duck. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

06-15-2005, 07:40 AM	#19
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	LOL Ron!! I live in North Carolina. Some of the people here even resent the word "North" in the name of their state.... __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve