A Target Luger

Paladinpainter · 05-09-2015, 09:12 AM

I have to admit it: I love shooting Lugers. But in their military configuration they are not target pistols: the sights are horrible and get worse every year; and the trigger pull leaves a lot to be desired. So with a little time on my hands this winter, I decided to put together a "Target Luger". The objectives were: a longer barrel, better sights, and better trigger.
I have always like the elegant lines of the Navy Luger; it just seems more graceful than the 4". In addition, the longer sight radius of the 6"barrel offers the potential of better accuracy. I wanted adjustable sights for the sharper picture and the ability to adjust for different loads. Improving the trigger pull was also on the agenda. AND I wanted to do this without ruining the classic lines of the Luger.

The rear sight was intended for a Glock. It was the lowest profile adjustable rear sight I could find. The dovetail attachment was removed from the bottom of the sight. The Luger's original sight and 'hump' were machined flat. The new sight is wider than the rear toggle, so the forks were re-shaped to provide clearance for the sight as it travels with the rear toggle. Some of the final fitting has yet to be blued. The rear sight base was carefully TIG welded to the rear toggle. GT provided a beautiful 6" barrel, Brownell's was the source of the front sight blank.
Trigger work was primarily to take the slop out of the system. The trigger lever and plate were drilled for a larger, tighter fitting pin. The lever was also bent to bring it closer to the trigger bar when at rest. The sear surfaces were polished, but the angle and amount of engagement wasnt changed. It now breaks cleanly at about 8 pounds.
So far, I've put about 50 rounds of mixed ammo through the gun and everything is still hanging together. The sight picture is much better and I'm sure the increased radius has a lot to do with the 3" or so groups at 25 yards. My goal is 2" with handloads.
A big thanks to GT for his magic in coming up with the barrel, Chris Tobias - a machinist willing to tackle my crazy projects, and Frank the Welder for attaching the tiny sight to the rear toggle. I plan to spend a lot of time at the range this summer.

John

DonVoigt · 05-09-2015, 09:42 AM

Nice looking pistol, and you can always replace the rear toggle and put the sight on an even longer
barreled version; and I do hope you started with a frankenluger.

Careful and clever work, but I'm not sure I would have had the guts to do it!

Arizona Slim · 05-09-2015, 09:50 AM

Nice work John, please keep us informed if you are able to come up with some good hand-loads for your "Target Luger".

Lon

sheepherder · 05-09-2015, 10:32 AM

Very cool project gun!

Is it 30 cal or 9mm?

K.Wilhelm · 05-09-2015, 01:03 PM

Neat- how much are you going to charge for the complete pistols when you go into full production? LOL Bill

Sergio Natali · 05-09-2015, 01:40 PM

John

Chapeau for your work of craftmanship!

Sergio

rhuff · 05-09-2015, 04:20 PM

Thank you for the info and photos. A most interesting project. I, also, am more of a shooter than a collector, and have a problem with the original sights if I try to shoot a fair amount of ammo at one range trip. I am familiar with that rear sight, as I have the same one on a G27. I will be interested in your accuracy handloads for this luger, as I also handload for my Lugers. Nice job!!

Paladinpainter · 05-11-2015, 10:30 AM

Thanks for the comments. The donor gun was a very worn commercial DWM, definitely in the shooter category. Its in 9mm. I have a friend who has cast a bunch of 120grn. truncated cone slugs that show potential in a couple of different guns. Right now I'm experimenting with Bullseye, because that's what I have on hand.

John

rhuff · 05-11-2015, 03:13 PM

John,

I have made Bullseye work in 30 Luger but not the best I have tried in MY Lugers. If down the road you can find a slower burning powder like Unique, and others in this range, you might want to give them a try.

The pistol/shotgun powder supply is not anywhere normal yet, but it is improving ......although very slowly. I look forward to your range reports.

TheRomanhistorian · 05-12-2015, 01:12 AM

Very impressive work, John. Sounds like a fun project!

jamese · 05-12-2015, 07:55 AM

in order to bend the trigger bar did you have to heat it ?
Ive tried to bend a few and always seem to break them

John Sabato · 05-12-2015, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamese

in order to bend the trigger bar did you have to heat it ?
Ive tried to bend a few and always seem to break them

Hi Jim, I wouldn't try to bend a trigger lever without having a couple of spares on hand to replace it with. They are super hard, and very brittle and prone to snap if you bend them cold.

I would try heating just the leg you want to bend until it turns a dull red in color and then let it cool without any help. Then try your bend, but don't be surprised if it still breaks.

An alternative to bending would be to have a precision welder build up the lower arm surface that touches the trigger (leave the vertical part of the lever alone IMHO), and then polish it back down slowly by hand (or with a dremel polishing head) until you have achieved the dimensions and surface that gives you the trigger manipulation you are looking for... It may take you several attempts, but at least you won't snap the trigger lever.

Just my $0.02

kurusu · 05-12-2015, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

An alternative to bending would be to have a precision welder build up the lower arm surface that touches the trigger (leave the vertical part of the lever alone IMHO), and then polish it back down slowly by hand (or with a dremel polishing head) until you have achieved the dimensions and surface that gives you the trigger manipulation you are looking for... It may take you several attempts, but at least you won't snap the trigger lever.

Just my $0.02

Your two cents are quite valuable.

Olle · 05-12-2015, 05:55 PM

Nice job, John!

That rear sight actually looks right at home on the Luger, kinda "steampunky" like the rest of the gun.

spacecoast · 05-12-2015, 07:08 PM

Nice gun, but I think you will find the longer barrel more advantageous at distances greater than 25 yards. I have a 3" S&W .44 special that will shoot 3" 5-shot groups at 25 yards offhand. A good 4" gun shouldn't have any problems at 50 yards.

Paladinpainter · 05-14-2015, 06:14 AM

John, you are right-on about the brittleness of the trigger lever. I realize I was flirting with disaster when I heated & bent mine. Whether the LPA sight has the strength to stay together for a couple of hundred rounds is part of the experiment. I'm mildly optimistic.
I've thought about other powders for my 9mm and 45acp. I'd like to find something that will work in both calibers. Any suggestions besides Unique ?

kurusu · 05-14-2015, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladinpainter

I've thought about other powders for my 9mm and 45acp. I'd like to find something that will work in both calibers. Any suggestions besides Unique ?

Vhitavuori N340

Vectan BA 9

rhuff · 05-14-2015, 02:48 PM

Power Pistol will do what you want, but it does have a flash/bang characteristic that some folks do not like......especially at the upper end.

spacecoast · 05-15-2015, 10:25 PM

Titegroup works fine for both

05-09-2015, 09:12 AM	#1
Paladinpainter User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Vermont Posts: 64 Thanks: 14 Thanked 45 Times in 15 Posts	A Target Luger I have to admit it: I love shooting Lugers. But in their military configuration they are not target pistols: the sights are horrible and get worse every year; and the trigger pull leaves a lot to be desired. So with a little time on my hands this winter, I decided to put together a "Target Luger". The objectives were: a longer barrel, better sights, and better trigger. I have always like the elegant lines of the Navy Luger; it just seems more graceful than the 4". In addition, the longer sight radius of the 6"barrel offers the potential of better accuracy. I wanted adjustable sights for the sharper picture and the ability to adjust for different loads. Improving the trigger pull was also on the agenda. AND I wanted to do this without ruining the classic lines of the Luger. The rear sight was intended for a Glock. It was the lowest profile adjustable rear sight I could find. The dovetail attachment was removed from the bottom of the sight. The Luger's original sight and 'hump' were machined flat. The new sight is wider than the rear toggle, so the forks were re-shaped to provide clearance for the sight as it travels with the rear toggle. Some of the final fitting has yet to be blued. The rear sight base was carefully TIG welded to the rear toggle. GT provided a beautiful 6" barrel, Brownell's was the source of the front sight blank. Trigger work was primarily to take the slop out of the system. The trigger lever and plate were drilled for a larger, tighter fitting pin. The lever was also bent to bring it closer to the trigger bar when at rest. The sear surfaces were polished, but the angle and amount of engagement wasnt changed. It now breaks cleanly at about 8 pounds. So far, I've put about 50 rounds of mixed ammo through the gun and everything is still hanging together. The sight picture is much better and I'm sure the increased radius has a lot to do with the 3" or so groups at 25 yards. My goal is 2" with handloads. A big thanks to GT for his magic in coming up with the barrel, Chris Tobias - a machinist willing to tackle my crazy projects, and Frank the Welder for attaching the tiny sight to the rear toggle. I plan to spend a lot of time at the range this summer. John Attached Thumbnails

05-09-2015, 10:32 AM	#4
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Very cool project gun! Is it 30 cal or 9mm? __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

05-09-2015, 01:03 PM	#5
K.Wilhelm User Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: South Central Colorado Posts: 215 Thanks: 45 Thanked 109 Times in 66 Posts	Neat- how much are you going to charge for the complete pistols when you go into full production? LOL Bill __________________ NRA Endowment Life member Proud veteran of the Naval Security Group

05-09-2015, 01:40 PM	#6
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	John Chapeau for your work of craftmanship! Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

05-12-2015, 01:12 AM	#10
TheRomanhistorian User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 301 Thanks: 170 Thanked 88 Times in 64 Posts	Very impressive work, John. Sounds like a fun project! __________________ Michael Nos morituri te salutant - Supposed saying of the gladiators to the emperor ('We, who are about to die, salute you.') 'We are the lantern bearers, my friend; for us to keep something burning, to carry what light we can forward into the darkness and the wind' - From Rosemary Sutcliff's The Lantern Bearers

05-09-2015, 09:42 AM	#2
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,440 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	Nice looking pistol, and you can always replace the rear toggle and put the sight on an even longer barreled version; and I do hope you started with a frankenluger. Careful and clever work, but I'm not sure I would have had the guts to do it!

05-09-2015, 09:50 AM	#3
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	Nice work John, please keep us informed if you are able to come up with some good hand-loads for your "Target Luger". Lon

05-09-2015, 04:20 PM	#7
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,272 Thanks: 2,692 Thanked 959 Times in 705 Posts	Thank you for the info and photos. A most interesting project. I, also, am more of a shooter than a collector, and have a problem with the original sights if I try to shoot a fair amount of ammo at one range trip. I am familiar with that rear sight, as I have the same one on a G27. I will be interested in your accuracy handloads for this luger, as I also handload for my Lugers. Nice job!!

05-11-2015, 10:30 AM	#8
Paladinpainter User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Vermont Posts: 64 Thanks: 14 Thanked 45 Times in 15 Posts	Thanks for the comments. The donor gun was a very worn commercial DWM, definitely in the shooter category. Its in 9mm. I have a friend who has cast a bunch of 120grn. truncated cone slugs that show potential in a couple of different guns. Right now I'm experimenting with Bullseye, because that's what I have on hand. John

05-11-2015, 03:13 PM	#9
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,272 Thanks: 2,692 Thanked 959 Times in 705 Posts	John, I have made Bullseye work in 30 Luger but not the best I have tried in MY Lugers. If down the road you can find a slower burning powder like Unique, and others in this range, you might want to give them a try. The pistol/shotgun powder supply is not anywhere normal yet, but it is improving ......although very slowly. I look forward to your range reports.

05-12-2015, 07:55 AM	#11
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 789 Thanks: 0 Thanked 84 Times in 34 Posts	in order to bend the trigger bar did you have to heat it ? Ive tried to bend a few and always seem to break them __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

05-12-2015, 05:55 PM	#14
Olle User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,149 Thanks: 159 Thanked 663 Times in 318 Posts	Nice job, John! That rear sight actually looks right at home on the Luger, kinda "steampunky" like the rest of the gun.

05-12-2015, 07:08 PM	#15
spacecoast User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: FL and PA Posts: 332 Thanks: 276 Thanked 243 Times in 109 Posts	Nice gun, but I think you will find the longer barrel more advantageous at distances greater than 25 yards. I have a 3" S&W .44 special that will shoot 3" 5-shot groups at 25 yards offhand. A good 4" gun shouldn't have any problems at 50 yards.

05-14-2015, 06:14 AM	#16
Paladinpainter User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Vermont Posts: 64 Thanks: 14 Thanked 45 Times in 15 Posts	John, you are right-on about the brittleness of the trigger lever. I realize I was flirting with disaster when I heated & bent mine. Whether the LPA sight has the strength to stay together for a couple of hundred rounds is part of the experiment. I'm mildly optimistic. I've thought about other powders for my 9mm and 45acp. I'd like to find something that will work in both calibers. Any suggestions besides Unique ?

05-14-2015, 02:48 PM	#18
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,272 Thanks: 2,692 Thanked 959 Times in 705 Posts	Power Pistol will do what you want, but it does have a flash/bang characteristic that some folks do not like......especially at the upper end.

05-15-2015, 10:25 PM	#19
spacecoast User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: FL and PA Posts: 332 Thanks: 276 Thanked 243 Times in 109 Posts	Titegroup works fine for both