A warning about fake parts

Greeneye · 12-05-2009, 04:08 PM

I was looking for a numbered part for a gun. I found Lugermans site and asked him if he had a part. I was told he could take my part and add the right markings and stamps. That frankly scares the hell out of me. Passing stuff like that off as original is wrong.

I guess it's okay if the part is clearly marked as a repro, but that isn't the way I understood it. Maybe I was mistaken.

sheepherder · 12-05-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greeneye

I was told he could take my part and add the right markings and stamps.

...

...

He came right out and told you that??? That cad! That scoundrel! Does he have crossed-rifle chamber stamp???

Ice · 12-05-2009, 04:26 PM

I want a crossed rifles stamp on my Erfurt!

Charlie

Greeneye · 12-05-2009, 05:01 PM

I guess I'm new to this, but it is not what I expected.

Norme · 12-05-2009, 05:26 PM

Hey Greeneye, your not in Kansas anymore! Welcome to the wonderful world of Lugers. Regards, Norm

LugerVern · 12-05-2009, 07:07 PM

It is unfortunate but there are many matching guns that did not come into this country that way. Matching magazines are a great example once rare, now a common occurrence.

It is possible to make just about any part and apply the correct proof or SN.

New parts can be aged using mag wheel cleaner prior to applying the finial finish, really not hard at all.

Entire guns can be aged this way also by acid dipping, look closely for the lines made by the last few drops of acid that run down and etch the metal a little deeper.

We are to blame, we established the criteria decades ago now that same criteria we use to value our guns has been used against us.

It may be time for a change, and some are working hard to come up with ways to spot the fakes. The technology is there but finding an easy way to apply it is not so easy. It will happen one day and the fakes will be exposed in abundance.

Eyes open at all times, and remember there is nothing wrong with buying a gun that is not perfect.

Vern

Edward Tinker · 12-05-2009, 07:31 PM

As one of the old timers on the forum, I can say that it is "uncommon" for someone to admit this out loud and is frankly frowned upon by almost every collector that is reputable.

I don't say, welcome to the world of lugers, because this is simply FRAUD....

Ed

George Anderson · 12-05-2009, 07:46 PM

In the course of a year I probably evaluate over a hundred Lugers for collectors. The last thing I look at is the magazine because I don't want to prejuidice my opinion of the gun itself. When finished with the gun I examine the magazine. I find that about fifty percent of all "matched" magazines are fake. To the seasoned eye it's easy to spot a faked mag. After faked mags comes faked side plates but they are no way near the percentage of faked side plates.

Greeneye · 12-05-2009, 08:02 PM

I know how this works in the world of Garands and M1 carbines, and there are certain dealers to watch out for. I guess there must be certain dealers in the world of Luger to watch out for as well.

Norme · 12-05-2009, 08:19 PM

Hi again, Your best protection is knowledge and experience. Stay with this forum, and the Jan C. Still forum. Questions of authenticity come up almost daily. Also visit gun shows and examine as many Lugers as possible,after a while you'll be able to sense when something's not Kosher. Regards and good luck! Norm

Lugerdoc · 12-07-2009, 10:32 AM

I get a lot of request from customers for side plates to match up their lugers. I try to explain that not only do you need the 2 outside digits to match, but they must be the same die set of the same manufacturer, as those ajacent on the receiver serial. Also in the case of military Mauser PO8s the 2 digits inside should be one number off from the FIRST 2 digits of the serial. Even if these factors are OK, a different wear pattern or blue (rust vs hot dip), is a sure give away. Tom

Ron Smith · 12-07-2009, 11:02 AM

I contacted Lugerman about the availability of an original numbered side plate. He said that he would put any number on it that I needed for an additional charge. Haven't contacted him since...

12-05-2009, 04:08 PM	#1
Greeneye User Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	A warning about fake parts I was looking for a numbered part for a gun. I found Lugermans site and asked him if he had a part. I was told he could take my part and add the right markings and stamps. That frankly scares the hell out of me. Passing stuff like that off as original is wrong. I guess it's okay if the part is clearly marked as a repro, but that isn't the way I understood it. Maybe I was mistaken.

12-05-2009, 07:31 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	As one of the old timers on the forum, I can say that it is "uncommon" for someone to admit this out loud and is frankly frowned upon by almost every collector that is reputable. I don't say, welcome to the world of lugers, because this is simply FRAUD.... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-07-2009, 10:32 AM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	I get a lot of request from customers for side plates to match up their lugers. I try to explain that not only do you need the 2 outside digits to match, but they must be the same die set of the same manufacturer, as those ajacent on the receiver serial. Also in the case of military Mauser PO8s the 2 digits inside should be one number off from the FIRST 2 digits of the serial. Even if these factors are OK, a different wear pattern or blue (rust vs hot dip), is a sure give away. Tom __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-07-2009, 11:02 AM	#12
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	I contacted Lugerman about the availability of an original numbered side plate. He said that he would put any number on it that I needed for an additional charge. Haven't contacted him since... __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

12-05-2009, 04:26 PM	#3
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	I want a crossed rifles stamp on my Erfurt! Charlie

12-05-2009, 05:01 PM	#4
Greeneye User Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I guess I'm new to this, but it is not what I expected.

12-05-2009, 05:26 PM	#5
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,415 Thanks: 225 Thanked 2,594 Times in 931 Posts	Hey Greeneye, your not in Kansas anymore! Welcome to the wonderful world of Lugers. Regards, Norm

12-05-2009, 07:07 PM	#6
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	It is unfortunate but there are many matching guns that did not come into this country that way. Matching magazines are a great example once rare, now a common occurrence. It is possible to make just about any part and apply the correct proof or SN. New parts can be aged using mag wheel cleaner prior to applying the finial finish, really not hard at all. Entire guns can be aged this way also by acid dipping, look closely for the lines made by the last few drops of acid that run down and etch the metal a little deeper. We are to blame, we established the criteria decades ago now that same criteria we use to value our guns has been used against us. It may be time for a change, and some are working hard to come up with ways to spot the fakes. The technology is there but finding an easy way to apply it is not so easy. It will happen one day and the fakes will be exposed in abundance. Eyes open at all times, and remember there is nothing wrong with buying a gun that is not perfect. Vern

12-05-2009, 07:46 PM	#8
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	In the course of a year I probably evaluate over a hundred Lugers for collectors. The last thing I look at is the magazine because I don't want to prejuidice my opinion of the gun itself. When finished with the gun I examine the magazine. I find that about fifty percent of all "matched" magazines are fake. To the seasoned eye it's easy to spot a faked mag. After faked mags comes faked side plates but they are no way near the percentage of faked side plates.

12-05-2009, 08:02 PM	#9
Greeneye User Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I know how this works in the world of Garands and M1 carbines, and there are certain dealers to watch out for. I guess there must be certain dealers in the world of Luger to watch out for as well.

12-05-2009, 08:19 PM	#10
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,415 Thanks: 225 Thanked 2,594 Times in 931 Posts	Hi again, Your best protection is knowledge and experience. Stay with this forum, and the Jan C. Still forum. Questions of authenticity come up almost daily. Also visit gun shows and examine as many Lugers as possible,after a while you'll be able to sense when something's not Kosher. Regards and good luck! Norm