30 cal."erfurt"

nein11 · 09-24-2002, 09:53 PM

Bought this gun from a guy in 1972.Said his wife didnt want a gun around the house with young kids.Mag states "germany"on wood base.Gun is in 95+ condition.All matching and has a curious notch on the front of the upper reciever.I think that is because it was once a part of an artillery luger.
Oh,has leather holster as well.My question is are the Erfurt's rare and am I correct about the notch??What do you think it is worth??

Edward Tinker · 09-24-2002, 10:10 PM

George, what makes you think this is a Commercial Erfurt?

Can you give us some more information?

Such as serial number, including any letter under the serial number?

Is it all matching, have you taken it apart and checked all the parts?

Can you provide pictures?

What markings are on it? Date? Proofs? etc.?

Check on your left at the Lugerforum portal www.lugerforum.com and click on tech info and then print out one of the forms on Identifications Sheets and this will help in giving us more information for a possible value.
[img]smile.gif[/img]

nein11 · 09-24-2002, 10:24 PM

Serial #86693.Has 93and crown on extractor as well as on toggle.Barrel has crown and the letter N underneath located on bottom of barrel.Nickel clip w/wood base.Crown also located on frame just above take down button.

nein11 · 09-24-2002, 10:25 PM

Correction serial #8693

John Sabato · 09-25-2002, 10:14 AM

virtually all Erfurts have the notched receiver... it was a standard manufacturing thing in case an artillery model was to be made from the receiver. Erfurts are not particularly rare, but Erfurt Lugers in nice condition are not that common either. Erfurts are not know to have been finished as nicely as the DWM's. They were a military arsenal and to my knowledge did not produce any commercial stock... but that doesn't mean that military guns were not sold as surplus on the commercial market after both wars.

Since it is all matching, and you believe it to be the original rust blue finish, it could be worth more than the average Luger of it's vintage. Posting photos here would be a positive step in determining the value...

Is there any suffix letter under the serial number on the front of the grip frame? Use the technical information sheets and markings listed under technical information on the home page to determine if there are any other marks to report.

Welcome to the Lugerforum.

Doubs · 09-25-2002, 11:40 AM

[quote]Originally posted by John Sabato:
<strong>virtually all Erfurts have the notched receiver... it was a standard manufacturing thing in case an artillery model was to be made from the receiver.<Snip></strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, the only Erfurt Lugers with the notch are those made in 1914 as Artillery models and those made after a directive was issued in late 1916 (Nov., IIRC) to notch all receivers. Even so, you'll find 1917 and 1918 Erfurts without the notch.

I also have an Erfurt "commercial" Luger in .30 caliber. These were military guns that had the original 9mm barrels removed and replaced with a 7.65mm barrel. This was likely done in the 1920's. My pistol has had the chamber date removed as yours appears to have had done because you don't mention a date. If you look at the receiver closely, you should be able to see a difference in the bluing between the part that was refinished after removal of the date and the earlier original finish. Unless, of course, they refinished the entire receiver.

Strictly speaking, Erfurt, an Imperial Arsenal, only produced military Lugers in 9mm. They didn't produce "commercial" pistols. However, after the war, many thousands of Lugers made by Erfurt and DWM were reworked in .30 caliber for export. Yours is undoubtedly one of them as is my pistol. Most were marked "Germany" somewhere... the front of the frame, the side rail of the frame or right side of the receiver are the most common places. Your mag is so marked, indicating it was for export.

Note that your barrel doesn't carry a serial number. All original Erfurt barrels will be numbered.

You have a nice, representative .30 caliber commercial Luger from the 1920's. It's value will be somewhere in the $500 - $700 range, although they frequently sell for less. At 95%+ condition, yours is worth a little more.

Ron Wood · 09-25-2002, 11:46 AM

With the commercial proof and in .30 Cal, it sounds like commercial created in the 20's and made up from an Erfurt with a replacement barrel. Erfurt was a military arsenal and did not produce .30 Cal Lugers. It is not a "factory" commercial, since BKIW used DWM parts or new production to create commercials. What is the barrel length and does it have a stock lug?

Ron Wood · 09-25-2002, 11:50 AM

Doubs is quicker on the draw than I am! Sorry about the duplication of info.

nein11 · 09-25-2002, 12:49 PM

Thanks to all for the info.As soon as I can this weekend,I will take several snap shots of this luger and one other a 42BYF unfired with bringback papers.Bought it in 1973 from Vet who brought it back,gun still had old cosmoline in it !Absolutly NEW !!!

John Sabato · 09-25-2002, 03:23 PM

Anxious to see the pics...thanks

09-24-2002, 09:53 PM	#1
nein11 User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	30 cal."erfurt" Bought this gun from a guy in 1972.Said his wife didnt want a gun around the house with young kids.Mag states "germany"on wood base.Gun is in 95+ condition.All matching and has a curious notch on the front of the upper reciever.I think that is because it was once a part of an artillery luger. Oh,has leather holster as well.My question is are the Erfurt's rare and am I correct about the notch??What do you think it is worth??

09-24-2002, 10:10 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	George, what makes you think this is a Commercial Erfurt? Can you give us some more information? Such as serial number, including any letter under the serial number? Is it all matching, have you taken it apart and checked all the parts? Can you provide pictures? What markings are on it? Date? Proofs? etc.? Check on your left at the Lugerforum portal www.lugerforum.com and click on tech info and then print out one of the forms on Identifications Sheets and this will help in giving us more information for a possible value. [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-25-2002, 10:14 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	virtually all Erfurts have the notched receiver... it was a standard manufacturing thing in case an artillery model was to be made from the receiver. Erfurts are not particularly rare, but Erfurt Lugers in nice condition are not that common either. Erfurts are not know to have been finished as nicely as the DWM's. They were a military arsenal and to my knowledge did not produce any commercial stock... but that doesn't mean that military guns were not sold as surplus on the commercial market after both wars. Since it is all matching, and you believe it to be the original rust blue finish, it could be worth more than the average Luger of it's vintage. Posting photos here would be a positive step in determining the value... Is there any suffix letter under the serial number on the front of the grip frame? Use the technical information sheets and markings listed under technical information on the home page to determine if there are any other marks to report. Welcome to the Lugerforum. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-25-2002, 11:46 AM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	With the commercial proof and in .30 Cal, it sounds like commercial created in the 20's and made up from an Erfurt with a replacement barrel. Erfurt was a military arsenal and did not produce .30 Cal Lugers. It is not a "factory" commercial, since BKIW used DWM parts or new production to create commercials. What is the barrel length and does it have a stock lug? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-25-2002, 03:23 PM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Anxious to see the pics...thanks __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-24-2002, 10:24 PM	#3
nein11 User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Serial #86693.Has 93and crown on extractor as well as on toggle.Barrel has crown and the letter N underneath located on bottom of barrel.Nickel clip w/wood base.Crown also located on frame just above take down button.

09-24-2002, 10:25 PM	#4
nein11 User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Correction serial #8693

09-25-2002, 11:40 AM	#6
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,673 Thanks: 773 Thanked 1,618 Times in 527 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by John Sabato: <strong>virtually all Erfurts have the notched receiver... it was a standard manufacturing thing in case an artillery model was to be made from the receiver.<Snip></strong><hr></blockquote> Actually, the only Erfurt Lugers with the notch are those made in 1914 as Artillery models and those made after a directive was issued in late 1916 (Nov., IIRC) to notch all receivers. Even so, you'll find 1917 and 1918 Erfurts without the notch. I also have an Erfurt "commercial" Luger in .30 caliber. These were military guns that had the original 9mm barrels removed and replaced with a 7.65mm barrel. This was likely done in the 1920's. My pistol has had the chamber date removed as yours appears to have had done because you don't mention a date. If you look at the receiver closely, you should be able to see a difference in the bluing between the part that was refinished after removal of the date and the earlier original finish. Unless, of course, they refinished the entire receiver. Strictly speaking, Erfurt, an Imperial Arsenal, only produced military Lugers in 9mm. They didn't produce "commercial" pistols. However, after the war, many thousands of Lugers made by Erfurt and DWM were reworked in .30 caliber for export. Yours is undoubtedly one of them as is my pistol. Most were marked "Germany" somewhere... the front of the frame, the side rail of the frame or right side of the receiver are the most common places. Your mag is so marked, indicating it was for export. Note that your barrel doesn't carry a serial number. All original Erfurt barrels will be numbered. You have a nice, representative .30 caliber commercial Luger from the 1920's. It's value will be somewhere in the $500 - $700 range, although they frequently sell for less. At 95%+ condition, yours is worth a little more.

09-25-2002, 11:50 AM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Doubs is quicker on the draw than I am! Sorry about the duplication of info. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-25-2002, 12:49 PM	#9
nein11 User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks to all for the info.As soon as I can this weekend,I will take several snap shots of this luger and one other a 42BYF unfired with bringback papers.Bought it in 1973 from Vet who brought it back,gun still had old cosmoline in it !Absolutly NEW !!!