Post war Mauser frames made in Italy?

Mauser9x57 · 03-09-2020, 06:00 PM

I have wanted to ask someone knowledgeable about this for years. I clearly remember years ago seeing a magazine article or perhaps Gun Digest article about an Italian firearms manufacturer. While there the author photographed newly produced Luger frames in racks. He had no information about them but surmised they were for the Mauser Lugers then being produced. Apparently his Italian hosts didn't tell him anything about them.
So is this possible, or was he wrong. A photograph of the racks of frames was in the article. Any other "old codger" remember this article?
I remember when the Mausers first arrived. A good friend drove me a few miles to a hardware store to show me one. I was so surprised they were being produced and disappointed too that the grip frame was "not right". I had two DWM's at that time but had never seen a Swiss 29.

Vlim · 03-09-2020, 06:48 PM

Nope. Mauser machined the frames themselves.

Only HSc barrels and Parabellum and HSc grip blanks were made in Italy.

The only company I can think of is Renato Gamba, but their contract lugers were made in Oberndorf. They did make a HSc version though.

Mauser9x57 · 03-10-2020, 09:05 AM

The question relevant in this discussion is not who machined the frames, but who forged, or less likely, who cast them. Setting up to forge frames would be a huge operation and very expensive. Now I don't know who did what, but I do remember the article and the picture. The Italian company was one of the ones making copies of Colt percussion cap revolvers.
Maybe the frames weren't for Mauser. Perhaps the Italian company was planning to introduce their own Luger copy, or someone else planned to and they were just producing the frames. Anyway it was a long time ago and maybe I will never know.

Vlim · 03-10-2020, 09:18 AM

Mauser frames were machined from forgings. By Mauser. Not anywhere else.

The entire Mauser Parabellum production was organized within the Quandt group. All suppliers to Mauser (except for grip blanks) were associated with Mauser. This included IWK, NWM, MFT, Mauser Messzeug.

The frame manufacturing process is very well documented, so there is no doubt at all that Mauser did not use Italian made frames.

Perhaps they made parts for non firing replicas or for Erma lugers.

rhuff · 03-10-2020, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

Perhaps they made parts for Erma lugers.

This was my first thought.

sheepherder · 03-10-2020, 03:34 PM

This thread struck a chord with me also...Google produced this listing with a further explanation...

https://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/th...luger.1767428/

Gerben also commented on a post in Still's forum about the Gamba Luger (in 2016)...

https://luger.gunboards.com/showthre...ser-circa-1975

Mauser9x57 · 03-10-2020, 04:20 PM

No offense to the Italians, but I'm glad my Mauser isn't a mongrel. I call myself a German firearm collector after all. Thank you. Since you couldn't see much more than the grip of the frames in the racks, Erma could be it.

ithacaartist · 03-16-2020, 11:44 AM

Holger Schlemeier's book about Erma's history, models produced, etc. would likely answer the question of whether frames were made elsewhere. As far as I know, the book has been printed in its original German, and I'm waiting for the English version which was slated to follow.

I'm skeptical that this ever happened. The series produced at that time would have been the KGP pistols, in two models and three calibers. These departed from the earlier Erma Luger-styled guns in that only the grip frames and triggers were cast Zamak, while the predecessors were built entirely of zinc alloy castings, save the barrel liners, breech blocks, and internals. The later guns were also scaled down, compared to the early ones that mimicked the dimensions and weight of real Lugers.

If someone can come up with the pics from the aforementioned article, and if they're detailed enough, we might be able to identify them as Erma or not.

03-09-2020, 06:00 PM	#1
Mauser9x57 User Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Eastern Washington State Posts: 15 Thanks: 27 Thanked 11 Times in 2 Posts	Post war Mauser frames made in Italy? I have wanted to ask someone knowledgeable about this for years. I clearly remember years ago seeing a magazine article or perhaps Gun Digest article about an Italian firearms manufacturer. While there the author photographed newly produced Luger frames in racks. He had no information about them but surmised they were for the Mauser Lugers then being produced. Apparently his Italian hosts didn't tell him anything about them. So is this possible, or was he wrong. A photograph of the racks of frames was in the article. Any other "old codger" remember this article? I remember when the Mausers first arrived. A good friend drove me a few miles to a hardware store to show me one. I was so surprised they were being produced and disappointed too that the grip frame was "not right". I had two DWM's at that time but had never seen a Swiss 29.

03-10-2020, 03:34 PM	#6
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	This thread struck a chord with me also...Google produced this listing with a further explanation... https://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/th...luger.1767428/ Gerben also commented on a post in Still's forum about the Gamba Luger (in 2016)... https://luger.gunboards.com/showthre...ser-circa-1975 __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

03-16-2020, 11:44 AM	#8
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,346 Thanks: 7,277 Thanked 2,578 Times in 1,365 Posts	Holger Schlemeier's book about Erma's history, models produced, etc. would likely answer the question of whether frames were made elsewhere. As far as I know, the book has been printed in its original German, and I'm waiting for the English version which was slated to follow. I'm skeptical that this ever happened. The series produced at that time would have been the KGP pistols, in two models and three calibers. These departed from the earlier Erma Luger-styled guns in that only the grip frames and triggers were cast Zamak, while the predecessors were built entirely of zinc alloy castings, save the barrel liners, breech blocks, and internals. The later guns were also scaled down, compared to the early ones that mimicked the dimensions and weight of real Lugers. If someone can come up with the pics from the aforementioned article, and if they're detailed enough, we might be able to identify them as Erma or not. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

03-09-2020, 06:48 PM	#2
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Nope. Mauser machined the frames themselves. Only HSc barrels and Parabellum and HSc grip blanks were made in Italy. The only company I can think of is Renato Gamba, but their contract lugers were made in Oberndorf. They did make a HSc version though.

03-10-2020, 09:05 AM	#3
Mauser9x57 User Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Eastern Washington State Posts: 15 Thanks: 27 Thanked 11 Times in 2 Posts	The question relevant in this discussion is not who machined the frames, but who forged, or less likely, who cast them. Setting up to forge frames would be a huge operation and very expensive. Now I don't know who did what, but I do remember the article and the picture. The Italian company was one of the ones making copies of Colt percussion cap revolvers. Maybe the frames weren't for Mauser. Perhaps the Italian company was planning to introduce their own Luger copy, or someone else planned to and they were just producing the frames. Anyway it was a long time ago and maybe I will never know.

03-10-2020, 09:18 AM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Mauser frames were machined from forgings. By Mauser. Not anywhere else. The entire Mauser Parabellum production was organized within the Quandt group. All suppliers to Mauser (except for grip blanks) were associated with Mauser. This included IWK, NWM, MFT, Mauser Messzeug. The frame manufacturing process is very well documented, so there is no doubt at all that Mauser did not use Italian made frames. Perhaps they made parts for non firing replicas or for Erma lugers.

03-10-2020, 04:20 PM	#7
Mauser9x57 User Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Eastern Washington State Posts: 15 Thanks: 27 Thanked 11 Times in 2 Posts	No offense to the Italians, but I'm glad my Mauser isn't a mongrel. I call myself a German firearm collector after all. Thank you. Since you couldn't see much more than the grip of the frames in the racks, Erma could be it.