Real or Replica?

[mastermo]

Hi,
I need some help, .
I just obtained a P38 ac 43 but I'm in doubt about it and I have 3 days for inspection.
I compared it with a video that's at this website called 'ReplicagunsDirect.com' And it matches the Real one except in one respect. My gun has right above the trigger stamped 'Carpentersville, IL'. Does anyone have any idea what this means? Also, it appears to have been dipped to cover rust or pitting?
Any thoughts on it would be appreciated
Manuel

[alanint]

Manuel,

The "Carpenterville, IL" is likely an importer's mark. You MUST supply us with extensive photographs if we are to help you!

[Patronen]

Carpentersville, IL when Googled with the word guns brings up R Guns Inc.

[mrerick]

I believe that batches of P-38 pistols are now in the process of being imported from Europe.

Others are showing up at dealers like "Aim Surplus"... They are running in the $550 range over there. R-Guns may be one of the companies doing the importing.

These will be import marked, and as such are less collectable than those that haven't been modified in this way. The dip re-finishing also makes them less collectable. These most likely were Russian Capture after WW-II or were used in another Eastern block country like Czechoslovakia.

Marc

[mastermo]

http://www.gunauction.com/search/dis...emNum=10690706

Try this link, it's where I got it.
Oh, it does have R G above the Carpentersville (right side of gun). And is all matching #'s except mag, which I just got a mag made in the same time period. ---This is supposed to be a Russian Capture.
Manuel

[Patronen]

Manuel, I'm not a P38 expert by no means but it sure is a real gun if that's what you mean by real or replica?
On a side note the R Guns website doesn't show any P38's in stock but they have Lugers

Dave

[mrerick]

So Yes, Manuel,

The one pictured in the auction looks like a real recently imported Russian Capture P.38 Pistol to me. Made in the Walther plant in 1943...

I looked it up, and Aim Surplus is selling these for between $540 and $580.

Marc

[John Sabato]

All of the above advice is perfectly valid, and many of our members also belong to our "sister" website: P38forum.com Their focus is the P-38 and other walther pistols. I highly recommend you visit there...

[mastermo]

Thanks guys for all your help and thx. John I did visit the P38 forum.

The reason I became doubtful was because of the Seller. I won the auction, sent the $ and FFL dealer license the next day, asking him to tell when he ships it with possible tracking link so that could anticipate to go pick it up.
Well I didn't hear from him for over a week, so I sent him an email 2 days later and no reply. Then a few more days I called him and he answered with really a bad demeanor and said he had just received my pay'mt, ya right, Priority letters don't take that long, so, I thought he lied.
So, I went and looked up his feed-back, and guess what, --2 negatives and 1 neutral out of about 25. One of the negatives the buyer was outraged he said he received a fake and the seller would not refund his money. So, thought that might have happened to me too.

Oh, btw, the gun arrived yesterday and it did look original, felt like steel, and functioned nice and solid with no slop, except for the 'Carpentersville, IL' and the darker coating (dipping), which made me wonder what was that doing on a gun from '43?'
The bore looks good except I think it needs cleaning. I have a cleaning solvent that will make it look like a mirror.
Manuel

[mastermo]

Hi guys,
The results are in. It shoots excellent!
10 yds. -- 1.5" pattern on bulls-eye.
25 yds. -- 2" pattern on bulls-eye.
100 yds -- 7 to 8" pattern on bulls-eye. For this dist. I hold-over.
I have a method for fixed sights that I use for longer distances and hit;
200 and 300 yd 18" targets, that I think is excellent. The only low point of the gun is that after cleaning the bore, it is quite worn but it is still doing its job,
Thx. again for your help, I really appreciated it,
Manuel

[nukem556]

that's EXCELLENT accuracy for a P38....I have a BYF 44 with an mint bore that won't group nearly that well

[alvin]

Shooting 100 yards from a P38 is not easy. I guess the fix sight is zeroed at 30 meters from my Interarms P1 range experience.

[rhuff]

I own a '43 P-38 with an excellent bore that won't shoot that good. A military issue that shoots a 2" group at 25 yards is awesome!! You did VERY good with your purchase.

[John Sabato]

Any P.38 that shoots that well is a real keeper.

There used to be a saying about wartime P.38's back in the 1970's--- P.38's are like LIGHTNING! They never strike twice in the same place!

[mastermo]

"There used to be a saying about wartime P.38's back in the 1970's--- P.38's are like LIGHTNING! They never strike twice in the same place! "

---Lol.
All I can say the way I shoot is unorthodox.
Here for example the P38 has two recoil springs, one on each side to balance and control the recoil.
And my method is way different from the Isosceles stance i.e., weak and strong hand grip and held in the middle of the chest. My methods can be used for any handgun to get a controlled recoil to improve accuracy.

I worked in aerospace for 23 yrs. machining, research & development, production, and reworking most of the parts of turbine engines etc.

At any rate, I have shot w/ some friends that couldn't hold a 10' pattern at 10 yds, let alone the rest of the yardages. And at the end of the 2 days, 2" patterns@ 10 and 25 yds. And beyond that, they can kick my behind often. Darn-it I wish I hadn't showed them my methods,

Oh, btw, today a new friend from our forum (we coincidently met) used some of the methods and the first two shots were 1/2" apart, 2" from bulls-eye. And the third shot Bingo" --Bulls-eye.
M

[mastermo]

Nukem, Alvin, rhuff,
You guys have excellent guns, and I think it's not the gun or you why you are not getting better results. I just think that you haven't been exposed to different technics that might work better. There is no doubt in my mind that you could do better by changing technics.

Here's just one of the methods I used for griping my gun but first some info as to why.
The Luger has a stock lug that was figured, and they were correct, to be the center point of recoil so that it could be transferred to the/a shoulder stock.
1. So, point your index finger and place it beside the upper part of the trigger guard.

2. With left hand place grip of gun right in the middle between your rt. index finger and thumb to where it feels comfortable. The whole weight of the gun should feel comfortable too. This will help support the center point of recoil and lessen the push of the big thumb muscle.

3. For practice, aim the gun somewhere and look at the front sight. Squeeze your grip to, not light or strong, but firm medium pressure while looking at the front sight. If it moves left or right or up/down, your grip is incorrect. --Practice squeezing and releasing until it does not move. ---Doing this will free the gun from undo vectorial pressures/tensions of your grip.
Happy practicing this part,
M

[mastermo]

Oops,
Forgot to say what the left hand does, lol.
The pistol is mostly controlled by the right hand. The left hand is used as 'the cup and saucer.'
First, w/left hand you pull the hammer, not the rt. thumb, you don't want to loose the grip, then place the palm under the gun and under the rt. hand. Then the index finger point goes underneath the trigger guard. Here it is used as a fine tune on the elevation.
The left hand is only used to help with the weight of the pistol and to fine tune the elevation.
M

[sheepherder]

Manuel -

Please post some pics of your P-38. I also have a P-38 (as do most members here); it is a Russian capture/VoPo refurb. Mine was 'dipped' to refinish it. This is different from what your local re-bluer would do, as it was not buffed (no reason to). Mine was lightly 'dipped'; there have been reports/complaints here of a tar-like coating on some Lugers/P-38's refurbed by the Eastern Bloc rebuilding facilities, but mine is very nicely done. Some numbers have been XX'd out and new numbers stamped ("force matched" is the term used here).

As John mentioned above, the P-38 Forum [http://www.p38forum.com/] is a good source of information; Jan Still's site [http://luger.gunboards.com/index.php] is good as well. There is also the Walther Forum [http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/] which is another good site for enthusiasts.

[mastermo]

Hi Postino,
Mine has an X and no forced matching. It appears lightly dipped. The barrel and the internals are darker than the frame. Also no polishing. Check it out on the link I posted on the 5th post at the start of the topic. It also has the description the seller used.
Manuel

[mastermo]

Postino,
I just went and checked it, it is still there.
I did notice that the safety and the serrations are darker than the rest of the slide to the extend that it covered the 'S' and 'F' colors. It probably was lightly polished.
And.....
I noticed in the description that it mentioned the 'import marking' above the trigger, .... This was the very question I asked for advice....duhhh.
Manuel