wooden grips

hi guys, im very angry about ebay. there are grips for luger to sell, but they know, that i am from germany. they say, i cant give a bid, because my country doesn't allow to buy anything for guns. thats right for barrels and frames, but not for grips or mags. does anybody have some nice, old (not new ones) otiginal wooden grips for my k-dated S/42?

i hope, that there is somebody, who doesen't want to make big deals. remember, i have to change 2,20 deutsche marks for one dollar. i hope for a nice answer. your dieter from germany.

[tom]

Hey Dieter,


Let me check my parts drawer at home; maybe I can help you....


Tom

[lugerholsterrepair]

I lost the thread where we were discussing the merits of the Colt blueing process and I believe Big Norm or Marvin said the Colt blue was achieved by the carbon coming from an outside source and my belief was it came from the metal itself. Where did you get your information that the carbon came from the burning materials and not from the metal? Just interested as a source?


I then want to know ,if your premise is true, how do you explain the process of heat treatment? IE: Placing a small metal piece in an oven and heating to say 500 degrees or therabouts and you achieve a dark blue? Where does the blue come from in this case as there is no carbon in the air ?


I believe the Colt blueing process was explained in a 1930's Colt catalog I have. Maybe I am mistaken but I would like to settle this as I believe it is a very interesting subject for at least some of us>>> Jerry

[John Sabato]

to Germany, Italy, France and a few other European countries if the items are marked with NAZI stamps or swastika symbols. These requirements are imposed on eBay by these countries. It doesn't matter if the items are gun related or not. Even a Nazi arm band would be prohibited. Too bad that there are some really stupid laws on the books of many countries and that includes the U.S.


Perhaps Tom can help you out directly as he suggests in his reply...


wiedersehen,


-John

[BILL]

Jerry, check out this link.

http://members.aol.com/illinewek/faqs/case.htm

[Johnny Peppers]

The blue color you refer to as coming from heating the metal is just a step above the strawing process, but as with the strawing process does not produce a durable finish.

The Colt process first used coal fired ovens in which a grate was covered with ground charcoal and bone to a depth of three feet. The charcoal was brought to a smolder, and after the parts had been thoroughly cleaned they were placed in the smoldering charcoal. After approximately two or three minutes the parts were withdrawn and rubbed down with a handful of oakum and whiting powder. This process was repeated until the desired color was obtained. While this was a beautiful glistening finish, the finish wore off quickly. The military pistols were then given a rougher finish before the blueing process in an attempt to make the blue finish more durable.

In 1918 Colt changed the process to the gas fired oven that produced the blue through the vaporization process I described earlier.

The earlier process is described in the Colt Collection, Connecticut State Library, RG 103.

[BILL]

Johnny, you are correct. At no time is any carbon being 'pulled' to the surface for either the bluing on the barrel or the 'color case-hardening'. I guess I am not sure where the notion that there is a bluing process that draws carbon out of the steel comes from.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Yes, what I referred to earlier is a process that is hotter than straw coloring but will someone explain to me where does the blue come from? Not out of thin air. The blue is carbon and as such must come from the metal.


Case hardening as such is a very different process from heat treatment due to heat only. Call me crazy but I still would like someone to tell me where this color comes from. Jerry

[Johnny Peppers]

Jerry,

The link provided by Bill gives a good description of the color casehardening process, and where the carbon comes from. At one time Winchester offered what it called "Extra Finish" casehardening as a step above the regular casehardening. This was an extra cost option on the lever action rifles, and some of these rifles have casehardenig colors that range from bright yellow to cobalt blue. After the casehardening process, the casehardening was given a coat of lacquer to intensify the brilliant colors. The receivers of these Winchesters were made of a very mild steel, and the carbon on the surface was imparted by the packing in the container when it was heated.

[Heinz]

As a muzzle loading rifle builder and fairly accomplished amatuer blacksmith I may be able to shed a little light on the subject of heat bluing.


Heat coloring on iron or steel, like rust blueing has little to do with carbon being available. You can heat color very low carbon steel or iron. The various stages of iron oxides furnish the color. Heat colors will run from sraw through light blue, dark blue, purple and black.


Addition of a bone meal and charcoal cover over the parts has three major effects.

1. They increase you ability to control the temperature because they furnish an additional thermal mass.

2. Oxidation of the carbon and bone meal tends to reduce the available oxygen slowing the bluing process. If you can slow it down you can get a little thicker coat, but we are talking layers of molecules here.

3. The carbon can be slightly driven into the metal surface, or case harden. This is usually a very bad thing on steel that is of the correct hardness and makes it brittle.


The variation in carbon content can cause some variation in the depth of the color and the color itself. Case hardening usually have other "secret" ingredients like cyanide or potassium salts to enhance the color casehardening effect.


In the 18 and early 19 century "charcoal blue" was very popular and is quite striking on small pieces. But it does not hold up well. It is accomplished over a charcoal forge fire with a lot of patience. Oil queching helps to hold the color. I have never had success charcoal bluing anything bigger than a butt plate on my forge.


I have always suspected the straw color on Lugers let those who would no realize they were looking at hardened parts with a fairly hard temper. Straw is the color you use for drawing cold chisels and razors.

[Johnny Peppers]

The early 1903 Springfield receivers were casehardened, but the proper temperature at which the receivers were to be quenched was "eyeballed" rather than using a pyrometer. On a bright day the heated receivers did not glow all that bright, and on a dull day they glowed very bright. This led to some of the receivers being glass hard all the way through, and also led to numerous failures. These receivers were not color casehardened, but had a dull gray color with only an occasional hint of color.