Help Identifying a Luger

stocklaw123 · 01-01-2011, 07:59 PM

below are the pictures. from seeing the DWM, it looks 1908 dwm luger military 9. and the proof mark would identify it as german military receiver proof. see proof marks, number 13 on this site.
I would like to hear from anyone else what they think. i bought this at an estate sale from a deceased collector, who kept his weapons in excellent condition and also was an amateur gunsmith.

Ron Wood · 01-01-2011, 08:05 PM

You have an early military piece with the collector nomenclature "First Issue", probably made/issued in 1909. It was subsequently modified for police use by adding a sear and magazine safety. The magazine safety has been removed/disabled, as most were.

stocklaw123 · 01-01-2011, 08:10 PM

what else can i look for to see if its a reproduction, or not? thanks for your quick reply.

stocklaw123 · 01-01-2011, 08:23 PM

Ron, thanks for your quick response. I am curious what you thought the value might be. happy new year. Jeff

Edward Tinker · 01-01-2011, 08:28 PM

The comment that Ron has at the bottom is a slight joke and NOT a comment about your gun.

I would need to see full left and full right to give an estimate.

The sideplate being messed up affects the value.

Also, are interior parts numbered with last two of the serial number (an early gun would probably not, but since it has been modified and went into police service, I would bet it has most military/police type markings)

Ed

Norme · 01-01-2011, 08:51 PM

Hi Jeff, Welcome to the forum. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your gun is made up of the parts from two different guns, at least. The frame is numbered 3685a, but the toggle train comes from a gun whose last two digits were 53. This relegates your gun to shooter status, I'm afraid. Best regards, Norm.

mrerick · 01-01-2011, 09:56 PM

Hi Jeff,

Also, your magazine is not contemporary with the gun. I can't seen enough to be sure what it is.

If it's military proofed with a plastic base, it's from around 1941-1942. If not, it's likely post-war.

Marc

stocklaw123 · 01-02-2011, 12:25 AM

Ed, thanks for the reply. attached are the pictures you asked me about. I am still interested in your opinion on the value of this shooter, since I see your point about the numbers from two different guns, likely it was adapted to police use. but I still think it is a better than average shooter. What is the approximate value in your opinion?

I dont need the money but would sell it for a fair price.

Jeff

Edward Tinker · 01-02-2011, 12:35 AM

Value of a shooter is $450-$750

All depends on where you are and who wants it.

At my table I would try and buy it for $450, maybe a bit more and sell it for around $600 or so.

Ed

stocklaw123 · 01-02-2011, 12:49 AM

thanks ed. I paid $500, which I thought at the time was fair as I saw that the barrell number and the frame number did not match but I was hoping that the markings on the frame made it 1908 per the proof data I found on this site. This is a GREAT website, I might add. I havent found another site that did such a fine job of giving detailed information on lugers, with so many knowlegeable moderators. I will probably keep it as a shooter for ****s and giggles, and keep hunting for a collector.
______________________________
“I have only five words for you: From my cold, dead hands.”
Charlton Heston (1923-2008)

stocklaw123 · 01-02-2011, 01:01 AM

marc, it is a plastic base and has PO8 stamped on it along with another stamp fxo and another symbol above that. see below.

Ron Wood · 01-02-2011, 01:55 AM

With the addition of the full view photos of your gun there is further evidence of mis-match. The stock lug on the frame indicates that while the barrel/receiver are of 1908/09 vintage, the frame dates after 1913. But, it is a nice looking gun and should draw admiring glances when you take it to the range...it is a lovely shooter and I think you paid a good price.

mrerick · 01-02-2011, 11:51 AM

Jeff,

The good news is that your magazine is a Haenel Schmeisser (German armament's code "fxo") manufactured magazine from 1941 - 1942. It's got a value of $125 or so, depending on condition. The other symbol is the German weapons inspection office acceptance stamp.

These extruded magazines are the best functioning variation ever manufactured for the Luger.

If you can afford to keep it to shoot with try and do so. Since the toggle train was replaced it might be wise to have a gunsmith look at it to verify that the headspace is correct. Even when you do buy a collectible Luger, you'll probably want one to shoot...

Marc

01-01-2011, 07:59 PM	#1
stocklaw123 User Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Help Identifying a Luger below are the pictures. from seeing the DWM, it looks 1908 dwm luger military 9. and the proof mark would identify it as german military receiver proof. see proof marks, number 13 on this site. I would like to hear from anyone else what they think. i bought this at an estate sale from a deceased collector, who kept his weapons in excellent condition and also was an amateur gunsmith. Attached Thumbnails

01-01-2011, 08:05 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	You have an early military piece with the collector nomenclature "First Issue", probably made/issued in 1909. It was subsequently modified for police use by adding a sear and magazine safety. The magazine safety has been removed/disabled, as most were. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-01-2011, 08:23 PM	#4
stocklaw123 User Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	any estimate of value Ron, thanks for your quick response. I am curious what you thought the value might be. happy new year. Jeff

01-01-2011, 08:28 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	The comment that Ron has at the bottom is a slight joke and NOT a comment about your gun. I would need to see full left and full right to give an estimate. The sideplate being messed up affects the value. Also, are interior parts numbered with last two of the serial number (an early gun would probably not, but since it has been modified and went into police service, I would bet it has most military/police type markings) Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-01-2011, 09:56 PM	#7
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Hi Jeff, Also, your magazine is not contemporary with the gun. I can't seen enough to be sure what it is. If it's military proofed with a plastic base, it's from around 1941-1942. If not, it's likely post-war. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

01-01-2011, 08:10 PM	#3
stocklaw123 User Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	what else can i look for to see if its a reproduction, or not? thanks for your quick reply.

01-01-2011, 08:51 PM	#6
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Jeff, Welcome to the forum. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your gun is made up of the parts from two different guns, at least. The frame is numbered 3685a, but the toggle train comes from a gun whose last two digits were 53. This relegates your gun to shooter status, I'm afraid. Best regards, Norm.

01-02-2011, 12:25 AM	#8
stocklaw123 User Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	additional pictures Ed, thanks for the reply. attached are the pictures you asked me about. I am still interested in your opinion on the value of this shooter, since I see your point about the numbers from two different guns, likely it was adapted to police use. but I still think it is a better than average shooter. What is the approximate value in your opinion? I dont need the money but would sell it for a fair price. Jeff Attached Thumbnails

01-02-2011, 12:35 AM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	Value of a shooter is $450-$750 All depends on where you are and who wants it. At my table I would try and buy it for $450, maybe a bit more and sell it for around $600 or so. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-02-2011, 12:49 AM	#10
stocklaw123 User Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	thanks ed. I paid $500, which I thought at the time was fair as I saw that the barrell number and the frame number did not match but I was hoping that the markings on the frame made it 1908 per the proof data I found on this site. This is a GREAT website, I might add. I havent found another site that did such a fine job of giving detailed information on lugers, with so many knowlegeable moderators. I will probably keep it as a shooter for ****s and giggles, and keep hunting for a collector. ______________________________ “I have only five words for you: From my cold, dead hands.” Charlton Heston (1923-2008)

01-02-2011, 01:01 AM	#11
stocklaw123 User Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	marks on clip marc, it is a plastic base and has PO8 stamped on it along with another stamp fxo and another symbol above that. see below. Attached Thumbnails

01-02-2011, 01:55 AM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	With the addition of the full view photos of your gun there is further evidence of mis-match. The stock lug on the frame indicates that while the barrel/receiver are of 1908/09 vintage, the frame dates after 1913. But, it is a nice looking gun and should draw admiring glances when you take it to the range...it is a lovely shooter and I think you paid a good price. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-02-2011, 11:51 AM	#13
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Jeff, The good news is that your magazine is a Haenel Schmeisser (German armament's code "fxo") manufactured magazine from 1941 - 1942. It's got a value of $125 or so, depending on condition. The other symbol is the German weapons inspection office acceptance stamp. These extruded magazines are the best functioning variation ever manufactured for the Luger. If you can afford to keep it to shoot with try and do so. Since the toggle train was replaced it might be wise to have a gunsmith look at it to verify that the headspace is correct. Even when you do buy a collectible Luger, you'll probably want one to shoot... Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.