Black widow not so black

[LUIS22]

Hello Guys,

Got this all matching nickel plated at an on line auction, magazine is matching also came with original holster and take down tool.I alredy spoke to a well known Florida gunsmith that offered to strip the nickel and salt blue the gun.I know that I should not touch it but I alredy have a nickel s42. Opinions welcome
thanks,

[LUIS22]

Can anyone help me with the black widow original finiish??Should it be black satin finish??glossy?? or flat black??

thanks,

[lugerholsterrepair]

Luis, stripping the chrome off and rebluing it will not help this pistol unless it is done correctly. If it is done to period specs it could improve the value. if just done by bubba gunsmith it could drop the value from what it is now.

My advice is to check credentials, do your research and get the right guy or don't do it.

Jerry Burney

[DavidJayUden]

I agree with Jerry. From what I can see it is not currently over-buffed. If carefully stripped and if the metal is carefully and correctly prepared it can be a very nice piece.
In short it is not yet hopelessly screwed up.
dju

[lugerholsterrepair]

In short it is not yet hopelessly screwed up.
I have done one like this..a 1908 first issue I found chromed. I suggest you get it electrically reversed..same way it was put on but reversed. That would leave the base metal stripped but not anything gone but the chrome.
You might have to look hard to find someone who can get the chrome off without damaging the pistol.
Restoration of any historical artifact is a time consuming project and this will take some dedication.
Jerry Burney

[DavidJayUden]

I would start by taking part of it into a good custom chrome shop and showing it to them. (Don't take the whole gun in and whip it out.) Try to speak with the old guy whlo has been there forever. They also can re-heat treat metal as a guard against imbritlement, or so I'm told.
Looks like a fun project to me.
dju

[artmccann]

Luis,
Here are some concerns to follow on from Jerry for your consideration.
1. to do the stripping properly it must be done with the similiar electrical equipment as the plater used.
2. chrome plating has a tendency to mask/cover up some metal flaws, so when reversed the flaws will become more pronounced that will require additional buffing.
3. if the metal is left in longer than necessary, the current will draw some copper and chrome used in making the steel out of the steel, this will change the original finish giving it a porous appearance.
4. each piece will require different times, you can not do the whole gun at one time.
5. after this whole process is completed, the metal must be stablized by heat treat tempering. if not done, all you have is a story to tell that added history to the Luger in its life cycle. simply put the metal will become brittle and break.
6. after all of this then you start the process of restoration to factory specifications.
can your everyday gunsmith do this in his shop under his supervision with the outcome what you "think" it will be?
Luis, I am giving you pause for thought, just like everyone else. presently you have a nice Luger, shooter or collector, with history and a story to tell.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Art, the current will draw some copper and chrome out. I don't believe there is any copper in steel?

Jerry Burney

[Edward Tinker]

Originally Posted by LUIS22

Can anyone help me with the black widow original finiish??Should it be black satin finish??glossy?? or flat black??

thanks,

Since there was no known 'black widow' variation by the factory, it is the same bluing as on any WW2 era mauser, i.e. 1939, 1940, 1941, 1942...


Ed

[wlyon]

Why not just leave it as is. It is what it is and spending money will not change that. Just an old man's opinion. Bill

[LUIS22]

Thanks to all for your opinions I didnt know that stripping the nickel could have so many issues involved.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by wlyon

Why not just leave it as is. It is what it is and spending money will not change that. Just an old man's opinion. Bill

+ 1

There are collectors (or accumulators) who would be interested in paying good money for a well nickel plated Luger. Chrome is a bit too garish, but nickel looks pretty nice on pistols. I've owned several and have been very pleased with that finish.

You could then use the proceeds to buy a collectible Luger...or two shooters...

[artmccann]

Jerry,
There is a very little copper in steel. Without a metal spec book (books that describe the amounts of elements in various steels grades, such as 4130, 4140, etc., and other metals) I cannot tell you exact amount, but most have some from times in the past when I was looking up the different types.
Maybe another member can help both of us regarding the copper?
art

[lugerholsterrepair]

Luis, I would bet a dollar to a donut it's not nickle on your pistol but hard 1960's bumper chrome. That was the popular method in the 50's & 60's to coat these pistols.

Art..I would think something like copper could not exist in steel..Steel is forged to such a high temperature that it would burn out copper? Heck if I know but it would be interesting to find out. You probly know much more about it than I do but it seems odd to me..copper being such a soft metal.

Jerry Burney

[jimmythejug]

Use of an acid "pickle" with or without a source of power presents problems, as the base metal may be "etched". Caswell sells a stripper which they claim removes nickel from steel without the need for power and they claim it won't damage the underlying steel.

http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/metalx.html

The above product has been recommended for use on firearms.

I'm a zinc plater. I specialize in restoring car and motorcycle parts but nickel is not an area of expertise for me.

[nukem556]

I think it would be worth an effort...unlike most of these chrome/nickel horrors, it doesnt seem it was buffed to death before plating....I'd try the deplating solution that Brownells sells, then maybe judicious polishing with emery cloth for the remnants....but then again, I rust blued my vopo at home...I just like rubbing on Lugers ;-)

[lugerholsterrepair]

Jimmy, Let's get our termonolgy down here.. which they claim removes nickel from steel

This coating I suspect.. is nothing like soft nickle but bumper chrome..hard as a rock. It must be determined exactly what it is before you can intelligently get it off. Many gun guys call anything shiney on a gun nickle and that's not necessarily so.




Jerry Burney

[jimmythejug]

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

This coating I suspect.. is nothing like soft nickle but bumper chrome..hard as a rock. It must be determined exactly what it is before you can intelligently get it off. Many gun guys call anything shiney on a gun nickle and that's not necessarily so.

Understood. Nickle is a chemical element, so I doubt that one type of nickle plating is "harder" than another. Nickle is nickle, if that's what it is. On the other hand, nickel is used as a base for chrome, which is a different animal altogether. So you're correct, we need to determine what it is.

I have no experience with Caswell's product nor do I endorse it in any way....but I use their products and they generally do what they say they will. I figured it was worth throwing out there.

In other news, I'm charging up the battery in my Nikon and itching to take pics of the my luger...looking forward to everyone's assessment, comments and information!!

[paid4c4]

I have a 1911 Remington Rand .45 which had been plated with mother of pearl grips, a real pimp pistol. I had the plating removed using the electrical process. I then had it parkerized to the proper color for 1944 when the pistol was manufactured. I found a nice set of correct grips which had a little age but looked good. The ending result is a pistol which is worth twice as much and is once again a piece of military history instead of going through life in the arm rest of a Cadillac!
Bill

[LUIS22]

The only reason why I want to have the gun re blued is because I alredy have a nickel plated S42, most people dont like nickel plated Lugers but mine looks really nice it has some sort of vintage look .At the shooting range is the main attraction ! LOL