I wonder how many lugers...

grapppa · 10-19-2008, 04:35 PM

How many lugers are owned outside of this collectors forum to the number owned by collectors in this forum. Say 10,000 outside to 1 inside? Iguess you'd have to find out how many guns are owned by the forum to the total population less those lost to history...

alvin · 10-19-2008, 05:45 PM

I guess the outside/inside ratio is way lower than 10,000 vs 1. Let's assume this forum has 500 members, averagely each member has 10 Lugers, the guesstimation is not aggressive at all, people have 10-20 Lugers are pretty common, and some people have 50+ (I have only two, because this gun is so expansive these days, but not so 30 years ago). That's account for 5,000 Lugers. If the ratio were 10,000:1, 'outsiders' had 5,000x10,000=50 million Lugers. This gun were made, all variations together, 2 million plus, and number of surviors of two world wars should be a much lower.

Even if we assume each member has only one Luger, outside number must be 5 million to meet the ratio.... that's still higher than production volume

========

An intersting (?) question for Luger fans: how many Lugers survived to this day? Any estimation?

tenbears · 10-19-2008, 09:16 PM

I know at least two collectors who have Lugers in the hundreds in their collections. And they don't do the internet or make public in anyway what they have. One of them disputed me when I told him of a recent LPO8 Erfurt unit mark find. After I told him only 2% were unit marked. I think their are still a lot of Lugers in the attics waiting to be rediscovered. I have been fortuninate to be the new owner of some of these forgotton Lugers. I might add it has taken years to develope my own network and gain the trust of some of these people I have mention.

Edward Tinker · 10-19-2008, 09:52 PM

There are many collectors who do not desire to be known, and a large number who are just internet afraid (or no desire there either, weird i know

)

See this http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...threadid=15956

I think there are many collectors who own between 1-5 lugers, but I have been amazed at knowing of several and heard of 5 or 6 others who own 100-200 each....

Ed

alvin · 10-19-2008, 10:37 PM

Collecting many guns without communication *could* be dangerous. For example, one author published a book regarding this type of gun (available in B&N, Borders, etc), obviously, he had many and he has seen many..... but he did not communicate, all by himself! The result..... hehehe..... I am not qualified to comment, but experts have expressed opinions. Given he did everything by himself, the work is still impressive though.

So, communication is important

Mike B · 10-19-2008, 11:59 PM

I just "happened" upon three individuals in the past several years, who I guess could be called "closet collectors", who showed me their collections. All three did not own a computer and had no interest in knowing anything about the forum or the internet. One owned 90 or more Lugers, the second owned over 300 and the third owned 24 Lugers. All three are in south Louisiana. Just imagine how many Lugers there are in the US.

Mike

Edward Tinker · 10-20-2008, 12:09 AM

90
+
300
+
24
-----
414

Mike, at least 414

I think of these "older" collectors who remember seeing barrels full of them coming into the USA in the 1950's (I wasn't born, so sorry for saying "older" collectors).... I imagine it will be like that for some folks who will say 20 years from now, I remember when they had wooden cases of mosin's at gun shows for less than a $100

Ed

Rod WMG · 10-20-2008, 01:28 AM

Ed, you weren't born in the fifties? That makes you so young it's a wonder you can feed and dress yourself!

Steinar · 10-20-2008, 04:44 AM

This is my humble collection

nah.. kept these for potential future research, like steel pressure testing, rust resistance or how well they preform as juggling objects.
My point is.. if there is any.. that many Lugers 'die' each day, especially 'over here'.

Edward Tinker · 10-20-2008, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rod WMG
Ed, you weren't born in the fifties? That makes you so young it's a wonder you can feed and dress yourself!

hej, heh, yes, i was born in 1960

policeluger · 10-20-2008, 01:28 PM

Ed.....telling Terry's age is not a good thing to do.....

;0

alanint · 10-20-2008, 01:37 PM

I still remember as a kid growing up in the NYC area the news footage of the yearly NYPD barge being towed out to sea piled high with that year's confiscated firearms.
The reporter always seemed to pull out the unusual and/or collectable to show the TV audience as an example of what was being dumped.
They had to stop this practice once they found out that people had developed the technology for retrieving much of what was thrown overboard. They torch and cut everything now.
I remember there always seemed to be a luger or two that they showed as part of the cache to be dumped. I wonder how many priceless historical pieces went this way in cities all over the US?

Steinar · 10-22-2008, 03:51 AM

Talking of dumping.. this is the result of this years wheapon amnesty here in Norway. These guns has NOT been brought in as a result of something criminal..
Every now and then, the police offers a 'window' where unregistred firearms can be turned in without risking punishment (!) for melting down.
1) Personally I don't get it, it does not offer anything else than a dump at sea or digg down would do.
2) Why illegal to turn in unregistred firearms?

http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2008/10/21/551082.html
(scroll down a bit, there is a small video window. There is at least one Luger in it)

alanint · 10-22-2008, 06:42 AM

MP40, MG42!!! Norwegian 1911s!!
I saw a Lahti, P38 and a number of antique S&Ws
What a crime to turn in these guns, if their destiny is to be destroyed.
What will the police do with them, Steinar?

The Miami Police have these silly "gun buy backs" here from time to time. They usually offer a $50 food coupon in exchange for the gun. Some Collectors got wind of this and stationed themselves outside the buy back center and offered $50 in CASH for select firearms, which you can imagine offers street people much more flexibility in what they spend their money on. The Police were furious when they got wind of this!!

Steinar · 10-22-2008, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alanint
MP40, MG42!!! Norwegian 1911s!!
I saw a Lahti, P38 and a number of antique S&Ws
What a crime to turn in these guns, if their destiny is to be destroyed.
What will the police do with them, Steinar?

They will be destructed by melting.. Risking four years of prison for having an unregistred wheapon, I quess that's the motivation for turning them in.

What's sad is that most of these firearms are either remains from ww2 or legally purchased hunting shotguns/rifles. Most likely passed down by heritage to someone who does not care about/can't legally register them.
By simply tossing them into the sea instead, the police could have used their resources fighting crime instead..

I have saved a few Lugers during these amnestys, where the police has placed them 'on hold' by the person who gave it in, in case he/she could find someone to purchase and register it within a month. But because of our restrictions, it's not always easy to find a buyer.
I have turned down the offer on a matching S42 Luger for 500NOK(that's 72USD!), simply because I can't have it registered (restrictions regarding number of pistols). Don't know how it ended with that gun, but my guess is that it's on it's way to the melting pot or deactivated by now

Please don't get the impression that norway is floating over by illegal guns after seeing that video, actually, I have never in my adult life seen or heard of anyone who has one (except hunting shotguns purchased before 1990). Even my grandfathers old Krag turned out to be registered after his death..

I will round off this post by showing you guys another link.. it's rather sad

This a minty, C96 Shnellfeuer pistol, all matching including stock and leather.. still in 'live condition'. But since it's a full automatic pistol, any new owner can't legaly own it the way it is and will have to pay an additional 250NOK to the winning bid to cover the costs of deactivation.
http://www.qxl.no/accdb/viewitem.asp...Nr=0&PageNum=1
..think I'll need a glass of my finest single malt now

Edward Tinker · 10-22-2008, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by policeluger
Ed.....telling Terry's age is not a good thing to do.....

;0

yes, true, I'll X it out for my sake

Fritzer · 10-22-2008, 08:54 PM

Ouch, the video was sad to watch...

And the Winchester Model 12 pump shotgun - field grade.
I still have dad's tucked away safe and sound.
Pa always claimed he could rack that thing faster than any auto of the day. Held his finger on the trigger and let fly.

And I have no Idea what this headline means - but it made me laugh out loud any way !

"Palin har fÃ?Â¥tt klÃ?Â¦r og sminke for Ã?Â©n million"

Regards,

Fritz

10-19-2008, 04:35 PM	#1
grapppa User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hillsborough, NJ Posts: 147 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I wonder how many lugers... How many lugers are owned outside of this collectors forum to the number owned by collectors in this forum. Say 10,000 outside to 1 inside? Iguess you'd have to find out how many guns are owned by the forum to the total population less those lost to history...

10-19-2008, 09:52 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	There are many collectors who do not desire to be known, and a large number who are just internet afraid (or no desire there either, weird i know ) See this http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...threadid=15956 I think there are many collectors who own between 1-5 lugers, but I have been amazed at knowing of several and heard of 5 or 6 others who own 100-200 each.... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-20-2008, 04:44 AM	#9
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	This is my humble collection nah.. kept these for potential future research, like steel pressure testing, rust resistance or how well they preform as juggling objects. My point is.. if there is any.. that many Lugers 'die' each day, especially 'over here'. __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

10-22-2008, 03:51 AM	#13
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Talking of dumping.. this is the result of this years wheapon amnesty here in Norway. These guns has NOT been brought in as a result of something criminal.. Every now and then, the police offers a 'window' where unregistred firearms can be turned in without risking punishment (!) for melting down. 1) Personally I don't get it, it does not offer anything else than a dump at sea or digg down would do. 2) Why illegal to turn in unregistred firearms? http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2008/10/21/551082.html (scroll down a bit, there is a small video window. There is at least one Luger in it) __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

10-19-2008, 05:45 PM	#2
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	I guess the outside/inside ratio is way lower than 10,000 vs 1. Let's assume this forum has 500 members, averagely each member has 10 Lugers, the guesstimation is not aggressive at all, people have 10-20 Lugers are pretty common, and some people have 50+ (I have only two, because this gun is so expansive these days, but not so 30 years ago). That's account for 5,000 Lugers. If the ratio were 10,000:1, 'outsiders' had 5,000x10,000=50 million Lugers. This gun were made, all variations together, 2 million plus, and number of surviors of two world wars should be a much lower. Even if we assume each member has only one Luger, outside number must be 5 million to meet the ratio.... that's still higher than production volume ======== An intersting (?) question for Luger fans: how many Lugers survived to this day? Any estimation?

10-19-2008, 09:16 PM	#3
tenbears User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 370 Thanks: 3 Thanked 26 Times in 15 Posts	I know at least two collectors who have Lugers in the hundreds in their collections. And they don't do the internet or make public in anyway what they have. One of them disputed me when I told him of a recent LPO8 Erfurt unit mark find. After I told him only 2% were unit marked. I think their are still a lot of Lugers in the attics waiting to be rediscovered. I have been fortuninate to be the new owner of some of these forgotton Lugers. I might add it has taken years to develope my own network and gain the trust of some of these people I have mention.

10-19-2008, 10:37 PM	#5
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Collecting many guns without communication could be dangerous. For example, one author published a book regarding this type of gun (available in B&N, Borders, etc), obviously, he had many and he has seen many..... but he did not communicate, all by himself! The result..... hehehe..... I am not qualified to comment, but experts have expressed opinions. Given he did everything by himself, the work is still impressive though. So, communication is important

10-19-2008, 11:59 PM	#6
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	I just "happened" upon three individuals in the past several years, who I guess could be called "closet collectors", who showed me their collections. All three did not own a computer and had no interest in knowing anything about the forum or the internet. One owned 90 or more Lugers, the second owned over 300 and the third owned 24 Lugers. All three are in south Louisiana. Just imagine how many Lugers there are in the US. Mike

10-20-2008, 12:09 AM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	90 + 300 + 24 ----- 414 Mike, at least 414 I think of these "older" collectors who remember seeing barrels full of them coming into the USA in the 1950's (I wasn't born, so sorry for saying "older" collectors).... I imagine it will be like that for some folks who will say 20 years from now, I remember when they had wooden cases of mosin's at gun shows for less than a $100 Ed

10-20-2008, 01:28 AM	#8
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed, you weren't born in the fifties? That makes you so young it's a wonder you can feed and dress yourself!

10-20-2008, 01:28 PM	#11
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Ed.....telling Terry's age is not a good thing to do..... ;0

10-20-2008, 01:37 PM	#12
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I still remember as a kid growing up in the NYC area the news footage of the yearly NYPD barge being towed out to sea piled high with that year's confiscated firearms. The reporter always seemed to pull out the unusual and/or collectable to show the TV audience as an example of what was being dumped. They had to stop this practice once they found out that people had developed the technology for retrieving much of what was thrown overboard. They torch and cut everything now. I remember there always seemed to be a luger or two that they showed as part of the cache to be dumped. I wonder how many priceless historical pieces went this way in cities all over the US?

10-22-2008, 06:42 AM	#14
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	MP40, MG42!!! Norwegian 1911s!! I saw a Lahti, P38 and a number of antique S&Ws What a crime to turn in these guns, if their destiny is to be destroyed. What will the police do with them, Steinar? The Miami Police have these silly "gun buy backs" here from time to time. They usually offer a $50 food coupon in exchange for the gun. Some Collectors got wind of this and stationed themselves outside the buy back center and offered $50 in CASH for select firearms, which you can imagine offers street people much more flexibility in what they spend their money on. The Police were furious when they got wind of this!!

10-22-2008, 08:54 PM	#17
Fritzer User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 134 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ouch, the video was sad to watch... And the Winchester Model 12 pump shotgun - field grade. I still have dad's tucked away safe and sound. Pa always claimed he could rack that thing faster than any auto of the day. Held his finger on the trigger and let fly. And I have no Idea what this headline means - but it made me laugh out loud any way ! "Palin har fÃ?Â¥tt klÃ?Â¦r og sminke for Ã?Â©n million" Regards, Fritz