help with make and value

trixdropd · 04-16-2005, 01:09 AM

I have inherited a luger and i'm unsure of the history and value of this gun. It appears to have some use due to wear on handle and a little barrell wear. great forum, A lot of fine info. I couldn't come to a conclusion as to what I have so I appreciate your help.

Jeremy

Pics
ADMIN, ABOVE IS LINKS TO PICTURES. Jeremy, it would be best if you put the pictures here on the forum, as it then stays with the posting.

Luke · 04-16-2005, 08:47 AM

Hello Jeremy,

Welcome to the Forum. Pictures of the gun would help. If you are unable to make pictures with either a digital camera or a flatbed scanner, more detail would make it easier to identify the gun. Chamber date? Stock Lug? Other markings and their locations? Type of grips . . . wood or plastic? Length of barrel? Etc.

Luke

Edward Tinker · 04-16-2005, 01:13 PM

Hello Jeremy, you can see the Admin note I made above. Please provide written info on the gun, serial number, caliber, etc.

From your pictures, it appears to be an Alphabet Luger, made for export to the USA (see the germany on the side).

Ed

Luke · 04-16-2005, 01:32 PM

Jeremy -

Sorry, I didn't see the small "pics" underneath your post, above.

From the pictures it appears you have a DWM Commercial Luger which was marked for export, as evidenced by the "GERMANY" on the right frame rail.

Unable to determine for certain, but it appears in one of the pictures that the gun does have a stock lug on the rear grip strap, making it a 1920 something.

Maybe I missed it, but I could not determine if it is a 7.65mm or 9mm.

What are the black marks on the front grip strap?

Luke

trixdropd · 04-17-2005, 03:25 PM

The gun serial is 9704. I am unsure of the caliber.
I am unsure of the stock lug, everthing appears to be original and stock.

The handle is worn from use probably during the war.

trixdropd · 04-17-2005, 03:36 PM

am jeremys co- owner of the weapon ,,,how do we detrmine the caliber?

Luke · 04-17-2005, 03:40 PM

If you post a close-up of the muzzle, almost anyone here could determine that.

Still curious about the very dark spots on the front grip strap. Are these rust areas? Or is it possible that the blue is worn off and the dark spots are an artifact of the photographic process?

trixdropd · 04-17-2005, 04:52 PM

The black looks infact like unworn blue, where aroung it it is more of a worn silver color. No rust really appears on gun as far as I can tell.
Thanks for your help gentlemen.

Luke · 04-17-2005, 05:14 PM

It appears that your Luger has an unusual amount of wear on the blue on both front and rear grip straps, disproportionate to the rest of the gun. Maybe one of the more experienced collectors here could speculate on the reasons for this.

As far as calibre is concerned, I have posted below a picture of your muzzle on the left and one of my 9mm muzzles on the right.

trixdropd · 04-17-2005, 05:24 PM

it seems to me that the wear is consistant with a commander holding the gun for long lengths of time, his hand sweat causing some wear. there are also holster markings, but the action is very tight.

Luke · 04-17-2005, 10:14 PM

Quote: ". . . wear is consistant with a commander holding the gun for long lengths of time . . "

Perhaps. But remember this is a Weimar era Luger, manufactured after the end of WW-I and exported. And the grips appear to be in excellent condition.

The grip strap wear is still a mystery to me.

Luke

Edward Tinker · 04-17-2005, 10:25 PM

I have seen front grip straps worn, but this is usually because they used to have unit markings and were taken off and quickly reblued.

For this gun, I would guess that the grips have been replaced and that the grips and front rear grip straps were exposed to the air and / or weather.

Ed

trixdropd · 04-18-2005, 12:14 AM

The grips do look old as well.
This gun sat in an airduct for at least 20 years. thanks for your observations. Anyone know what this thing is worth?

trixdropd · 04-18-2005, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Luke
Quote: ". . . wear is consistant with a commander holding the gun for long lengths of time . . "

Perhaps. But remember this is a Weimar era Luger, manufactured after the end of WW-I and exported. And the grips appear to be in excellent condition.

The grip strap wear is still a mystery to me.

Luke

yeah, I dunno that much about the time it was made, so You're right I presume.

Edward Tinker · 04-18-2005, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by trixdropd
The grips do look old as well.
This gun sat in an airduct for at least 20 years. thanks for your observations. Anyone know what this thing is worth?

HOW, did it sit? Wrapped up in an oil rag or? That would make a huge difference in how it is worn?

Also, it could be that the front and rear grip strap weren't cleaned after the last usage.

I always check what current guns are going for on Simpsons, LTD, Ralphs World of Lugers etc., and figure that is retail, so if I want to sell, then my price is 25-40% less...

Ed

trixdropd · 04-18-2005, 12:58 AM

it sat unprotected. maybe it wasn't cleaned after last use.
You're telling me to see what a current model gun is worth and value mine 40% less??

Edward Tinker · 04-18-2005, 06:22 AM

It is what I do, from the retail side of things. Simpson's can be fairly expensive, so I deduct an amount if I wanted to sell it.

Let me just take a WAG, it is a commerically marked luger, so probably made in the 1920's for sale in the USA, many times called a 1920 commercial, Jan Still calls them an Alphabet Luger. If it is 9mm then it is worth more, then if it is 7.65mm (30 luger), yours appears to be 7.65, you could always get a 9mm cartridge and from the MUZZLE end, see if a bullet fits. If it does then it is 9mm, if not, then 7.65mm.

A "shooter" luger goes from $400-$600, all depending on where you are in the country. I would hazard a guess that yours, with the excessive worn grip would sell for less than one in much better shape, although it is not in horrible shape. Value probably in the $450-$600, but if it is in 7.65, they have trouble selling for more than $500, as many folks are turned off by the caliber. Also, for whatever reasons the "1920 commercials" do not sell for near as much as say a WW1 or WW2 pistol.

All depends on condition and originality, so if the firing pin or breechblock has been replaced, it could be worth less to most collectors.

I am under the impression y'all are trying to sell her?

Since you inherited her, does she have a story to tell?

Ed

trixdropd · 04-18-2005, 10:03 AM

I may or may not sell, really just finding more info.
I clean air ducts for a living, and found it at a custy's house in the main duct. She told me to take it from her house, that it must've been from the previous owners. The history is a mystery to me. I am trackong down the origin of the previous owner however.

trixdropd · 04-18-2005, 08:50 PM

anyone have anymore specifics on this gun according to it's markings?

Also, I thought a serial with a letter like 9704h would be commercial, with a non-lettered serial being a military issue. Is this incorrect? Thanks.

Edward Tinker · 04-18-2005, 08:56 PM

yes, in fact it is the opposite. A "normal" commerical would have five digits, but during the weimar era, the "alphabet" guns had suffixes. These commerical alphabets were used by the military and the police, in addition to being sold as commerical.

Prior to the weimar era, Imperial, ww1 guns were all marked with a suffix, each suffix equals 10k of guns, so in one year there might be 130 - 160 thousand guns made.

What other information are you looking for?

Ed

04-16-2005, 01:09 AM	#1
trixdropd User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	help with make and value I have inherited a luger and i'm unsure of the history and value of this gun. It appears to have some use due to wear on handle and a little barrell wear. great forum, A lot of fine info. I couldn't come to a conclusion as to what I have so I appreciate your help. Jeremy Pics ADMIN, ABOVE IS LINKS TO PICTURES. Jeremy, it would be best if you put the pictures here on the forum, as it then stays with the posting.

04-16-2005, 08:47 AM	#2
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Hello Jeremy, Welcome to the Forum. Pictures of the gun would help. If you are unable to make pictures with either a digital camera or a flatbed scanner, more detail would make it easier to identify the gun. Chamber date? Stock Lug? Other markings and their locations? Type of grips . . . wood or plastic? Length of barrel? Etc. Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

04-16-2005, 01:32 PM	#4
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Jeremy - Sorry, I didn't see the small "pics" underneath your post, above. From the pictures it appears you have a DWM Commercial Luger which was marked for export, as evidenced by the "GERMANY" on the right frame rail. Unable to determine for certain, but it appears in one of the pictures that the gun does have a stock lug on the rear grip strap, making it a 1920 something. Maybe I missed it, but I could not determine if it is a 7.65mm or 9mm. What are the black marks on the front grip strap? Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

04-17-2005, 03:40 PM	#7
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	If you post a close-up of the muzzle, almost anyone here could determine that. Still curious about the very dark spots on the front grip strap. Are these rust areas? Or is it possible that the blue is worn off and the dark spots are an artifact of the photographic process? __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

04-17-2005, 05:14 PM	#9
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	It appears that your Luger has an unusual amount of wear on the blue on both front and rear grip straps, disproportionate to the rest of the gun. Maybe one of the more experienced collectors here could speculate on the reasons for this. As far as calibre is concerned, I have posted below a picture of your muzzle on the left and one of my 9mm muzzles on the right. __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

04-16-2005, 01:13 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	Hello Jeremy, you can see the Admin note I made above. Please provide written info on the gun, serial number, caliber, etc. From your pictures, it appears to be an Alphabet Luger, made for export to the USA (see the germany on the side). Ed

04-17-2005, 03:25 PM	#5
trixdropd User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The gun serial is 9704. I am unsure of the caliber. I am unsure of the stock lug, everthing appears to be original and stock. The handle is worn from use probably during the war.

04-17-2005, 03:36 PM	#6
trixdropd User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	am jeremys co- owner of the weapon ,,,how do we detrmine the caliber?

04-17-2005, 04:52 PM	#8
trixdropd User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The black looks infact like unworn blue, where aroung it it is more of a worn silver color. No rust really appears on gun as far as I can tell. Thanks for your help gentlemen.

04-17-2005, 05:24 PM	#10
trixdropd User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	it seems to me that the wear is consistant with a commander holding the gun for long lengths of time, his hand sweat causing some wear. there are also holster markings, but the action is very tight.

04-17-2005, 10:14 PM	#11
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Quote: ". . . wear is consistant with a commander holding the gun for long lengths of time . . " Perhaps. But remember this is a Weimar era Luger, manufactured after the end of WW-I and exported. And the grips appear to be in excellent condition. The grip strap wear is still a mystery to me. Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

04-17-2005, 10:25 PM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	I have seen front grip straps worn, but this is usually because they used to have unit markings and were taken off and quickly reblued. For this gun, I would guess that the grips have been replaced and that the grips and front rear grip straps were exposed to the air and / or weather. Ed

04-18-2005, 12:14 AM	#13
trixdropd User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The grips do look old as well. This gun sat in an airduct for at least 20 years. thanks for your observations. Anyone know what this thing is worth?

04-18-2005, 12:58 AM	#16
trixdropd User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	it sat unprotected. maybe it wasn't cleaned after last use. You're telling me to see what a current model gun is worth and value mine 40% less??

04-18-2005, 06:22 AM	#17
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	It is what I do, from the retail side of things. Simpson's can be fairly expensive, so I deduct an amount if I wanted to sell it. Let me just take a WAG, it is a commerically marked luger, so probably made in the 1920's for sale in the USA, many times called a 1920 commercial, Jan Still calls them an Alphabet Luger. If it is 9mm then it is worth more, then if it is 7.65mm (30 luger), yours appears to be 7.65, you could always get a 9mm cartridge and from the MUZZLE end, see if a bullet fits. If it does then it is 9mm, if not, then 7.65mm. A "shooter" luger goes from $400-$600, all depending on where you are in the country. I would hazard a guess that yours, with the excessive worn grip would sell for less than one in much better shape, although it is not in horrible shape. Value probably in the $450-$600, but if it is in 7.65, they have trouble selling for more than $500, as many folks are turned off by the caliber. Also, for whatever reasons the "1920 commercials" do not sell for near as much as say a WW1 or WW2 pistol. All depends on condition and originality, so if the firing pin or breechblock has been replaced, it could be worth less to most collectors. I am under the impression y'all are trying to sell her? Since you inherited her, does she have a story to tell? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-18-2005, 10:03 AM	#18
trixdropd User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I may or may not sell, really just finding more info. I clean air ducts for a living, and found it at a custy's house in the main duct. She told me to take it from her house, that it must've been from the previous owners. The history is a mystery to me. I am trackong down the origin of the previous owner however.

04-18-2005, 08:50 PM	#19
trixdropd User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	anyone have anymore specifics on this gun according to it's markings? Also, I thought a serial with a letter like 9704h would be commercial, with a non-lettered serial being a military issue. Is this incorrect? Thanks.

04-18-2005, 08:56 PM	#20
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	yes, in fact it is the opposite. A "normal" commerical would have five digits, but during the weimar era, the "alphabet" guns had suffixes. These commerical alphabets were used by the military and the police, in addition to being sold as commerical. Prior to the weimar era, Imperial, ww1 guns were all marked with a suffix, each suffix equals 10k of guns, so in one year there might be 130 - 160 thousand guns made. What other information are you looking for? Ed