Pattern 1914 Navy

rpbcps · 12-30-2015, 04:10 PM

I have been offered a 1916 dated Navy Luger, but after reading chapter 13 of “The Borchardt and Luger automatic pistols", I noticed a couple of things which do not look right.

The magazine matches, but the serial number seems to be going in the wrong direction for a Navy Luger.

The year of production, that I am informed appears on the left side frame rail, just below the chamber and on the left front sight block, is not in either loction.

Is this unusual or os there anything else unusual about this example?

Your assistance appreciated as always and all the best to everyone for 2016.

Richard

lugerholsterrepair · 12-30-2015, 04:20 PM

This is the first "cartoon" Navy Luger I have ever seen! Makes me laugh..

Richard, This thing is the ruination of what once used to be a Luger. The rear sight is a horrible fake, the barrel is likely carved out of a rifle, the "navy" stamps are ridiculous. The whole thing is an abomanation. Stay away from it. WAY away from it.

rpbcps · 12-30-2015, 04:29 PM

Jerry,
Thanks for your reply and confirmation of my suspicions.

mrerick · 12-30-2015, 05:03 PM

It looks like someone took a "W" serif letter die and used it upside down.

Is that an Erfurt proof and "RC" Revisions Commission stamp on the front of the frame?

Are those British (Vickers?) crossed keys proofs?

in any case, stay far away from this not too well disguised workmanship!

DonVoigt · 12-30-2015, 06:06 PM

Yes,
It is an Erfurt frame.
As the others have said, nothing "navy" about it except the shape.

It also has British or Belgian proofs in a couple locations.

I like Jerry's "cartoon" description!

lugerholsterrepair · 12-30-2015, 06:21 PM

Talk about "floating" crowns! These look like ephemeral ghostly pumpkin heads floating in a haunted house!
Pretty sure a 5 year old could draw a better rendition of Imperial Naval proofs!

rpbcps · 12-30-2015, 06:22 PM

Crossed swords are the British Proof house deactivation stamp, I live in the England.

Thanks for everyone's posts, they are appreciated.

Let us hope 2016 is kind to us all.

Richard

lugerholsterrepair · 12-30-2015, 07:39 PM

Crossed swords are the British Proof house deactivation stamp..Then this is the only deactivated Luger I agree with!

rpbcps · 12-31-2015, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

Crossed swords are the British Proof house deactivation stamp..Then this is the only deactivated Luger I agree with!

I agree with you, but unfortunately, due to our draconian gun laws that is the only way we can own any handgun now.

Mind you, following the recent terrorist attack in Paris, the European Union are now talking about banning the private ownership of even deactivated firearms!

Richard

DavidJayUden · 12-31-2015, 12:10 PM

Mind you, following the recent terrorist attack in Paris, the European Union are now talking about banning the private ownership of even deactivated firearms!

groan...

dju

Edward Tinker · 12-31-2015, 12:17 PM

I simply don't understand the concept of banning deact guns? How in blankityblank would this prevent terrorism?

Anyway, those are the weirdest Crown M's I have ever seen

rhuff · 12-31-2015, 03:04 PM

My, My, that is a most unusual "Navy"!! Someone thought they were going to make a fortune here. Hopefully no one bites!!

Neil Young · 12-31-2015, 05:14 PM

Come on gentlemen. I think you are being much too hard on this poor forger. After all, we don't know his personal situation. He may be in dire straights and really need the money desperately. He may think that he is doing the collecting community a great service by making rare firearms less rare. Then again, he may just be a f*****g crook! He is obviously not a craftsman.

Sergio Natali · 01-01-2016, 06:27 AM

Crossed swords are the British Proof house deactivation stamp ??

Not necessarily, crossed swords are "British Military Proof Marks", and they're not necessarily mark a deactivated firearm.

I enclose a picture of my 1911 BRITISH COLT CONTRACT cal. .455 Webley, I can assure you it's not deactivated at all.

Anyway I love Jerry's description!!

12-30-2015, 04:10 PM	#1
rpbcps Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Home base UK, but spend a lot of time overseas working. Posts: 125 Thanks: 62 Thanked 158 Times in 49 Posts	Pattern 1914 Navy I have been offered a 1916 dated Navy Luger, but after reading chapter 13 of “The Borchardt and Luger automatic pistols", I noticed a couple of things which do not look right. The magazine matches, but the serial number seems to be going in the wrong direction for a Navy Luger. The year of production, that I am informed appears on the left side frame rail, just below the chamber and on the left front sight block, is not in either loction. Is this unusual or os there anything else unusual about this example? Your assistance appreciated as always and all the best to everyone for 2016. Richard Attached Thumbnails

12-30-2015, 04:20 PM	#2
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	This is the first "cartoon" Navy Luger I have ever seen! Makes me laugh.. Richard, This thing is the ruination of what once used to be a Luger. The rear sight is a horrible fake, the barrel is likely carved out of a rifle, the "navy" stamps are ridiculous. The whole thing is an abomanation. Stay away from it. WAY away from it. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-30-2015, 05:03 PM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	It looks like someone took a "W" serif letter die and used it upside down. Is that an Erfurt proof and "RC" Revisions Commission stamp on the front of the frame? Are those British (Vickers?) crossed keys proofs? in any case, stay far away from this not too well disguised workmanship! __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-30-2015, 06:06 PM	#5
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Yes, It is an Erfurt frame. As the others have said, nothing "navy" about it except the shape. It also has British or Belgian proofs in a couple locations. I like Jerry's "cartoon" description! __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

12-30-2015, 06:21 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Talk about "floating" crowns! These look like ephemeral ghostly pumpkin heads floating in a haunted house! Pretty sure a 5 year old could draw a better rendition of Imperial Naval proofs! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-30-2015, 04:29 PM	#3
rpbcps Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Home base UK, but spend a lot of time overseas working. Posts: 125 Thanks: 62 Thanked 158 Times in 49 Posts	Jerry, Thanks for your reply and confirmation of my suspicions.

12-30-2015, 06:22 PM	#7
rpbcps Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Home base UK, but spend a lot of time overseas working. Posts: 125 Thanks: 62 Thanked 158 Times in 49 Posts	Crossed swords are the British Proof house deactivation stamp, I live in the England. Thanks for everyone's posts, they are appreciated. Let us hope 2016 is kind to us all. Richard

12-30-2015, 07:39 PM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Crossed swords are the British Proof house deactivation stamp..Then this is the only deactivated Luger I agree with! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-31-2015, 12:10 PM	#10
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Mind you, following the recent terrorist attack in Paris, the European Union are now talking about banning the private ownership of even deactivated firearms! groan... dju

12-31-2015, 12:17 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	I simply don't understand the concept of banning deact guns? How in blankityblank would this prevent terrorism? Anyway, those are the weirdest Crown M's I have ever seen

12-31-2015, 03:04 PM	#12
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,709 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	My, My, that is a most unusual "Navy"!! Someone thought they were going to make a fortune here. Hopefully no one bites!!

12-31-2015, 05:14 PM	#13
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 546 Thanks: 559 Thanked 442 Times in 168 Posts	Come on gentlemen. I think you are being much too hard on this poor forger. After all, we don't know his personal situation. He may be in dire straights and really need the money desperately. He may think that he is doing the collecting community a great service by making rare firearms less rare. Then again, he may just be a f*****g crook! He is obviously not a craftsman. __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

01-01-2016, 06:27 AM	#14
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Crossed swords are the British Proof house deactivation stamp ?? Not necessarily, crossed swords are "British Military Proof Marks", and they're not necessarily mark a deactivated firearm. I enclose a picture of my 1911 BRITISH COLT CONTRACT cal. .455 Webley, I can assure you it's not deactivated at all. Anyway I love Jerry's description!! Attached Thumbnails __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.