What is my Luger (and what's it worth?)

[lugermom]

Hi everyone, I inherited several Lugers from my Dad and I'm trying to figure out what I've got here. I think this one is a 1914, and I took photos and made notes of everything I could figure out. For the rest of the information you'll need, I don't even know what I don't know yet, so please be patient with me. I can take more photos if needed.
This gun was in Canada until recently. I assume the "Germany" mark was put there when it came into Canada from Germany. It should also have a mark indicating that it came into the USA from Canada, but I haven't found that yet.

I'll post photos from my phone--give me a few minutes.
Thanks in advance for your expertise!

[lugermom]

Here are some photos.

[lugermom]

Oh--also, I should point out that as far as I can tell, all the serial numbers match except for the magazine. I need to look at my other ones and make sure they didn't get mixed up.

I took photos of your website's handy note pages and will post those as well. I was only able to partly fill them out because I didn't know what some of the stuff was. (I'm embarrassed to say this but it is what it is.)

[lugermom]

Here are my note pages

[Edward Tinker]

welcome to the forum - do a new page for each different luger

The USA import marking is the one on the bottom of the magazine well
'germany' marking was required for USA import - but since most of the weapons came through New York, they were stamped Germany (in germany) as an export marking and then were sent throughout the americas.

See the FAQ for help, and ask questions here.

Ed

[lugermom]

Edward Tinker, thanks. In fact, the BV in the mark is the initials of the company that did the shipping from Canada to the USA. I should have figured that out....

So--we are thinking that the "Germany" stamp is from years ago and was placed there when the gun was brought in from Germany, and the BV stamp is recent? (Just clarifying.)

[lugermom]

An update--the importer is required to put their mark on the gun, plus information about the gun if it's not on the weapon. So it's possible that Borderview did all the marking. They might have had to put the country of manufacture and the type/caliber on there too.
If Borderview put the stamp on, I guess it's possible that this gun was not shipped commercially to Canada, that it might indeed have come in a veteran's duffel bag.
I'll check with Borderview.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Mom, From the looks of the marks I believe you are correct. The import in the curve of the mag well and Germany are bound to have been done at the same time. In all the Germany marked Luger's I have ever seen I have never seen one this small or in this area.

Your 1914 WW1 Luger is a very decent looking pistol. The magazine is a WW2 type with an aluminum bottom. Your 1914 should have a numbered WOOD bottom.

[lugermom]

Thanks Jerry--so we'll assume that the magazine is a newer replacement for the original.
I just talked with Borderview and they are checking for sure but it's near-certain that all the information in the mag well (a new term for me) was put there by Borderview in 2018 when they did the export/import.

Any thoughts about the significance of the inscriptions? I found some resources but couldn't find the exact symbols in that order.

[HerrKaiser]

The scroll on top of the toggle is the manufacturer, Deutsch Waffen und Munitionfabriken (DWM), the smaller “inscriptions” that you see on the right side of the pistol and the one on the underside of the barrel are proof/acceptance marks from the German military.

Side note, is there a full serial number on the underside of your barrel?

[mrerick]

Here's a link to our FAQ PDF document, which you'll find quite useful for reference.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=13121

Welcome to the forum.

The acceptance stamp on the bottom of the magazine is a Weimar Eagle (droop eagle) over 63. It was made by / for Mauser.

I'd estimate your Luger's value with the magazine at $1600 if the Luger's numbers are, in fact, matching. There are internally numbered parts that would need to be checked, along with the inside of the grips .

Use extreme care when removing the grips - especially the left one - so as not to chip them near the top and the safety lever.

[sheepherder]

The barrel looks newer than the rest of the Luger. Also, IIRC, one of our members here makes replacement barrels for Lugers because of some arcane barrel length requirement by the Canadian authorities. It might be worth measuring the muzzle-to-breech length, not that it matters here but it may have been swapped out in Canada.

Nice looking Luger. My WAG would be in the $1200 to $1500 range, depending on the abundance or scarcity of Lugers in where ever you live.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

The barrel looks newer than the rest of the Luger. Also, IIRC, one of our members here makes replacement barrels for Lugers because of some arcane barrel length requirement by the Canadian authorities. It might be worth measuring the muzzle-to-breech length, not that it matters here but it may have been swapped out in Canada.

Nice looking Luger. My WAG would be in the $1200 to $1500 range, depending on the abundance or scarcity of Lugers in where ever you live.

It is the original barrel, or an original replacement; one can see the original DWM(Spandau) firing proof on the rear of the barrel in two of the pictures.

[Pistol]

Nice looking 1914 and great job on the photos!

Just need two more that will help. One of the serial # under the barrel and one of the serial # on the front of frame.

For the next guns, I would not worry with posting photos of the forms. It should be adequate if you post the photos you did for this 1914 and the two additional photos requested above.

[tharpo]

The magazine is from 1936.

[lugermom]

Hey Pistol, I think I got the information in just one photo! Please let me know if it’s not right.
I didn’t even know there was lettering under the barrel/on the frame, so I’m excited to see what it means.

[sheepherder]

Bȍ is Bȍhler, a manufacturer of barrels. The 28 is the batch number of the steel.

2995 a is the serial number. 8,82 is the land diameter of the bore.

Very nice example.

[mrerick]

Heather, as you can see there is a great deal of detail to be discerned from pictures of Lugers, and a remarkable amount of depth of history and research involved in those small details.

Very large reference volumes have been published about the Luger pistol as a result.

This site has some of the world's experts on these details of Lugers. It's quite a remarkable resource, especially when you observe how freely collectors share this information.

There is always something more to learn about Lugers. I refer to the reference books as "Luger University", but the people collecting them often have gone much deeper than that in their research and understanding.

There are some details that are more obscure than others, and that is one of the real advantages of a website / discussion board like this one.

We get a wide range of new Luger owners asking questions here, and welcome them all.

Your Luger is particularly interesting and collectible. That is not always the case.

Lugers often have a long service life. Your Luger was originally acquired by the German military during the Imperial era. As you suggest in post #7, it was most likely brought into Canada by a returning veteran of either WW-I or WW-II. Since the magazine is later, it's more likely a capture from WW-II, but don't forget that replacement magazines could come from any source at any time.

"2995a" is your Luger's legal serial number. It should have been imported with that number, and any documentation referring to it in the USA should use that number.

The use of Boehler steel barrels on DWM Lugers was discussed here several years ago:

https://luger.gunboards.com/showthre...-STEEL-BARRELS Your Luger would fall toward the end of the 1914 list reported to Jan.

One of our European based researchers ("Vlim") confirms in this thread that a close relationship existed between Boehler and DWM prior to 1928. This would imply that Loewe's DWM would be a Boehler customer for a number of supplies.

In Sturgess extensive study of the Luger on page 1055 (red edition) he indicates that DWM acquired it's barrel steel from Boehler in Vienna, and that this was used (both unmarked and around 1913 marked by batch) by DWM when they were manufacturing Lugers. I'm not sure of Sturgess' source for this detail, but since it includes process information through 1942, it was probably August Weiss.

After two world wars, the records from DWM's Berlin / Charlottenberg operations have not surfaced, and original documentation may no longer exist. After Luger production was transferred to Mauser in Oberndorf in 1930, the manager of pistol production August Weiss brought some documentation (as well as tools, gauges, in process parts and supplies like steel) with him in a train. The inventory of that was found in Oberndorf. I'm not aware of original DWM or BKIW documentation of the acquisition of Boehler steel or it's usage in Lugers.

[lugermom]

So you could have the barrel replaced and still keep the same serial number?

Which is bringing me to my next question--how much can we tell about the history of a Luger just from the marks on it? I assume some of the marks show the factory in which it was made, and that the barrel was replaced in Erfurt. I know we can't get to "this pistol was owned by Fred Schmidt and was a gift from his wife" or "this pistol was used in xyz regiment" without further markings, but--

--how close can we get?

[George Anderson]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

A Bohler barrel on a DWM indicates a replacement barrel.

On the contrary, Boehler barrels are original to some 1913 and 1914 DWM P08s. They were not used as replacements.