FRAUD ALERT

tracyp · 08-27-2002, 02:02 PM

I saw these two on Gunbroker and realized they were pictures of two that Morris Hallowell has for sale. The seller is in Ohio and Mr. Hallowell is in Montana. I contacted Mr Hallowell and he told me they were his Lugers but he doesn't have them up for auction on Gunbroker. He currently trying to contact Gunbroker.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temNum=3152537

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temNum=3152570

John Sabato · 08-27-2002, 02:18 PM

Nice catch Tracey... please keep us informed on the details as they happen.

Perhaps the Gunbroker seller was trying to get a better price than your friend was asking and then would pay the asking price and pocket the difference? Either way it is out and out Fraud if the actual owner doesn't have these pistols up for auction or on consignment.

Has anyone ever dealt with this Ohio seller "Keanu" ?? Do we know who he really is?

and last question is: Is Mr. Hallowell a member of the Lugerforum?

Edward Tinker · 08-27-2002, 02:28 PM

That is too weird, and Tracy, these are the same gun by serial number??? I am sure that is the case, I just thought it too odd to believe!

tracyp · 08-27-2002, 02:36 PM

Here's Mr. Hallowell's site. If you look under Handguns, you'll find the two Lugers.

http://www.hallowellco.com

Edward Tinker · 08-27-2002, 02:43 PM

Tracy, I of course believed you, but the text and pictures were lifted also?

That is too much trouble to do for the lack of return he might get for re-selling?

too weird for me, [img]eek.gif[/img]

John Sabato · 08-27-2002, 02:47 PM

The seller has pulled the same stunt on a Colt SAA that the real owner has listed for $3875!

The auction item number is:
http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temNum=3152516

Auction Arms has just posted this notice at the bottom of all 3 of these auction ads: [quote] THIS SELLER'S ACCOUNT HAS BEEN DISABLED.
Bidding on this seller's auctions is suspended until further notice. <hr></blockquote>

Another prime example of the necessity to know who you are dealing with when you buy at auction on the internet (This guy had no feedback posted-it was a brand new seller account).

Get your payment and delivery terms in writing!

...And make sure that you pay for such a purchase with a POSTAL money order MAILED with a signature required delivery confirmation, and insist on delivery confirmation and tracking (FEDEX) for delivery so he can't say I sent it and they must have lost it in transit. If the "perpetrator" takes your money this way, he will go down for federal mail fraud when the catch him.

MauserLugers · 08-27-2002, 03:19 PM

Great work!!!

You saved someone a lot of money. This guy needs to be put away for about the next 100 years!!!

John Sabato · 08-27-2002, 03:33 PM

Just discovered that eBay has a seller by the same name, but he hasn't sold anything since 1999. Of the 19 feedbacks he had on file, there were 3 complaints... Most of the positive feedback was regarding him/her as a customer and not a seller...

He listed his geographical location back then as USA...

I hope they close in on him fast...

tracyp · 08-27-2002, 04:58 PM

Another auction on Gunbroker had another one of Mr. Hallowell's guns. The guy had no rating and is out of London. This auction has also been closed.

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...p?Item=5069660

John Sabato · 08-27-2002, 05:31 PM

I think the location is just as phoney... It is the same gun owner victim and the same methods including copying the real owner's description. I believe it is the same person.

Will Gunbroker/eBay/AuctionArms take any legal action against this person now that we are certain that this is a scam...?

tracyp · 08-27-2002, 05:44 PM

John,

If they're anything like ebay they won't do anything. The online auctions don't want to admit this is a problem.

ken d · 08-27-2002, 06:13 PM

Just a thought

I know the ideal of additional catagories has already been discussed, but in light of the number of auction posts and the fraud just uncovered might a catagory of "auction alert" be helpful.

Regards

ken d

Doubs · 08-27-2002, 06:30 PM

While we're on the subject, there's an on-going auction on GunBroker where the seller's pitch is so obviously fake that it's funny. It's an Erfurt Luger that was brought back from WW1 by a GI. The dates on it are 1918 and 1920! Either this guy knows nothing about history or the war lasted much longer than I think it did. It's interesting that the guy has no pictures posted but will send you one if you e-mail him. The description given is also pretty lame. The auction number is 5105335.

tracyp · 08-27-2002, 06:40 PM

This guy may mean WWII. He may be honest, just not very knowlegable. He does have a positive rating as a seller.

Herb · 08-27-2002, 06:49 PM

John, I was going to report this to the FBI but in order for them to read this thread they would need access to it. Can you send it to them or give access to the info with a temp password?
http://www1.ifccfbi.gov/cf1.asp
This is their internet fraud site. Recommed you indicate internet fraud involving firearms.
This guy has to be caught, he obviously intended to 'sell' these guns to the highest bidder, have them send in their money and head for the trees. All he has to do now is change his name and e-mail and do it again, one of us might be next.

George Anderson · 08-27-2002, 09:27 PM

I would council that we not bring any arm of the federal government in to any gun related dispute that they are not already involved in.

Some rabid bureaucrat or politician is just sitting out there waiting for a mission such as shutting down internet commerce in firearms.

Edward Tinker · 08-27-2002, 09:40 PM

Besides Herb, if you want to report the incident, just point them in the direction of the auction site. This was just a conduit of information and nothing except information was conducted here.

Herb · 08-27-2002, 09:41 PM

George, too late. I have notified the FBI internet Fraud Section of this atrocity, I got tired of their admin waiting to take action. I have no idea if it will do any good or not, but I have seen this Keanu name before on auction sites, apparently this is an ongoing fraud he/she is perpetuating. I requested that they provide feedback, but I doubt if that will happen. This board is on the up and up and completely legal, I have no concern that this action will involve it. As for the internet commerce in firearms is concerned, would you rather send your money in to a seller and get nothing in return or get satisfaction? We are talking thousands of dollars here. This dirt bag need to serve time if for no other reason than to send a warning to others who would try the same thing.

Brandon · 08-27-2002, 09:58 PM

I agree with Herb!

How will we be able to find out if this guy/Gal does time?

Brandon...

Edward Tinker · 08-27-2002, 10:05 PM

You won't.

Working on the road, many times you never hear the final elements of the case. Did they go to jail, pay up, get kicked out (of the army), etc., etc. Unless it hits the news services you won't hear anything.

[img]frown.gif[/img]

08-27-2002, 02:02 PM	#1
tracyp User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 391 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	FRAUD ALERT I saw these two on Gunbroker and realized they were pictures of two that Morris Hallowell has for sale. The seller is in Ohio and Mr. Hallowell is in Montana. I contacted Mr Hallowell and he told me they were his Lugers but he doesn't have them up for auction on Gunbroker. He currently trying to contact Gunbroker. http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temNum=3152537 http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temNum=3152570

08-27-2002, 02:18 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Nice catch Tracey... please keep us informed on the details as they happen. Perhaps the Gunbroker seller was trying to get a better price than your friend was asking and then would pay the asking price and pocket the difference? Either way it is out and out Fraud if the actual owner doesn't have these pistols up for auction or on consignment. Has anyone ever dealt with this Ohio seller "Keanu" ?? Do we know who he really is? and last question is: Is Mr. Hallowell a member of the Lugerforum? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-27-2002, 02:28 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	That is too weird, and Tracy, these are the same gun by serial number??? I am sure that is the case, I just thought it too odd to believe! __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-27-2002, 02:43 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Tracy, I of course believed you, but the text and pictures were lifted also? That is too much trouble to do for the lack of return he might get for re-selling? too weird for me, [img]eek.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-27-2002, 02:47 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	The seller has pulled the same stunt on a Colt SAA that the real owner has listed for $3875! The auction item number is: http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temNum=3152516 Auction Arms has just posted this notice at the bottom of all 3 of these auction ads: [quote] THIS SELLER'S ACCOUNT HAS BEEN DISABLED. Bidding on this seller's auctions is suspended until further notice. <hr></blockquote> Another prime example of the necessity to know who you are dealing with when you buy at auction on the internet (This guy had no feedback posted-it was a brand new seller account). Get your payment and delivery terms in writing! ...And make sure that you pay for such a purchase with a POSTAL money order MAILED with a signature required delivery confirmation, and insist on delivery confirmation and tracking (FEDEX) for delivery so he can't say I sent it and they must have lost it in transit. If the "perpetrator" takes your money this way, he will go down for federal mail fraud when the catch him. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-27-2002, 02:36 PM	#4
tracyp User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 391 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Here's Mr. Hallowell's site. If you look under Handguns, you'll find the two Lugers. http://www.hallowellco.com

08-27-2002, 03:19 PM	#7
MauserLugers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Philipsburg, Montana 59858 Posts: 250 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 1 Post	Great work!!! You saved someone a lot of money. This guy needs to be put away for about the next 100 years!!!

08-27-2002, 03:33 PM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Just discovered that eBay has a seller by the same name, but he hasn't sold anything since 1999. Of the 19 feedbacks he had on file, there were 3 complaints... Most of the positive feedback was regarding him/her as a customer and not a seller... He listed his geographical location back then as USA... I hope they close in on him fast... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-27-2002, 04:58 PM	#9
tracyp User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 391 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Another auction on Gunbroker had another one of Mr. Hallowell's guns. The guy had no rating and is out of London. This auction has also been closed. http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...p?Item=5069660

08-27-2002, 05:31 PM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I think the location is just as phoney... It is the same gun owner victim and the same methods including copying the real owner's description. I believe it is the same person. Will Gunbroker/eBay/AuctionArms take any legal action against this person now that we are certain that this is a scam...? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-27-2002, 05:44 PM	#11
tracyp User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 391 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	John, If they're anything like ebay they won't do anything. The online auctions don't want to admit this is a problem.

08-27-2002, 06:13 PM	#12
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Just a thought I know the ideal of additional catagories has already been discussed, but in light of the number of auction posts and the fraud just uncovered might a catagory of "auction alert" be helpful. Regards ken d

08-27-2002, 06:30 PM	#13
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,671 Thanks: 772 Thanked 1,617 Times in 526 Posts	While we're on the subject, there's an on-going auction on GunBroker where the seller's pitch is so obviously fake that it's funny. It's an Erfurt Luger that was brought back from WW1 by a GI. The dates on it are 1918 and 1920! Either this guy knows nothing about history or the war lasted much longer than I think it did. It's interesting that the guy has no pictures posted but will send you one if you e-mail him. The description given is also pretty lame. The auction number is 5105335.

08-27-2002, 06:40 PM	#14
tracyp User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 391 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	This guy may mean WWII. He may be honest, just not very knowlegable. He does have a positive rating as a seller.

08-27-2002, 06:49 PM	#15
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	John, I was going to report this to the FBI but in order for them to read this thread they would need access to it. Can you send it to them or give access to the info with a temp password? http://www1.ifccfbi.gov/cf1.asp This is their internet fraud site. Recommed you indicate internet fraud involving firearms. This guy has to be caught, he obviously intended to 'sell' these guns to the highest bidder, have them send in their money and head for the trees. All he has to do now is change his name and e-mail and do it again, one of us might be next. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

08-27-2002, 09:27 PM	#16
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	I would council that we not bring any arm of the federal government in to any gun related dispute that they are not already involved in. Some rabid bureaucrat or politician is just sitting out there waiting for a mission such as shutting down internet commerce in firearms.

08-27-2002, 09:40 PM	#17
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Besides Herb, if you want to report the incident, just point them in the direction of the auction site. This was just a conduit of information and nothing except information was conducted here. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-27-2002, 09:41 PM	#18
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	George, too late. I have notified the FBI internet Fraud Section of this atrocity, I got tired of their admin waiting to take action. I have no idea if it will do any good or not, but I have seen this Keanu name before on auction sites, apparently this is an ongoing fraud he/she is perpetuating. I requested that they provide feedback, but I doubt if that will happen. This board is on the up and up and completely legal, I have no concern that this action will involve it. As for the internet commerce in firearms is concerned, would you rather send your money in to a seller and get nothing in return or get satisfaction? We are talking thousands of dollars here. This dirt bag need to serve time if for no other reason than to send a warning to others who would try the same thing. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

08-27-2002, 09:58 PM	#19
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I agree with Herb! How will we be able to find out if this guy/Gal does time? Brandon...

08-27-2002, 10:05 PM	#20
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	You won't. Working on the road, many times you never hear the final elements of the case. Did they go to jail, pay up, get kicked out (of the army), etc., etc. Unless it hits the news services you won't hear anything. [img]frown.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV