Inherited Dads Luger/ Identify

[spleeft]

I just signed up here, and plan on utilizing the forum quite a bit. It looks like you'all have a great forum !
I wasn't sure where to start, so I'll just jump in right here.
Here are pics of the Luger. I'm pretty sure my father got it from my Grandfather ( WWII vet ) but it looks like, from the bring back papers , he got it from someone else. I am interested in the history of the gun mostly, as I plan on keeping it , but an estimated worth would be nice for insurance purposes. I have the Bring back papers with it also, but not sure if I should post it with the names in view, ( probably doesnt matter )
I'm particularly interested in the receiver markings, I couldn't find them using a google search. Also the serial numbers look like they all match , but I have not dissembled it yet.
I can retake any photos if need be. ( I didnt see the "how to take gun photots" soon enough !)
Thanks in advance for any insight !

[lugerholsterrepair]

You have a post WW1 Police pistol made by Deutsch Waffen und Munitionfabriken in 1921. It has the State property mark of 1920 on the chamber as well. Very nice condition..
The holster is a late WW1 1918.
The magazine Eagle c 3 is a Police 3rd spare magazine. The other 814 m + is an Army spare mag.
This pistol was made for the reichswehr Government to arm the 100,000 man German Police force allowed at the time.
From the notch in the left grip it has had a magazine safety installed and removed. Might be remnants you can see inside when you take it apart.
Has the million dollar chip in the grip near the safety.
Are there any unit mark numbers on the front gripstrap?

[Terry Tiell]

Damn thats in fantastic condition!

[mrerick]

Hi Dean, and welcome to the forum.

As to insurance value for your Luger, take a look at some of the online retail dealers like:

http://www.simpsonltd.com/advanced_s...wm+1921+police

http://fgsfirearms.com

http://www.checkpointcharlies.com/

and look for 1921 DWM police Lugers.

The ones at Simpson range from about $1700 to $3150.

Marc

[spleeft]

Thanks for the replies ! I will google the term "million dollar chip" !
But I was wondering if the grip was just broke or there was a purpose for that chip.
There are no markings on the grip strap from what I can tell. Just a small marking that looks like what could be the "start" of some kind of stamp in the lower right area of the pic , in a horizontal position parallel to the grip itself maybe 3/16" long .

[DavidJayUden]

The term "million Dollar chip" is a tongue-in-cheek description of the small piece of wood missing just behind the base of the safety lever. It occurs when the grip is removed, and is an act of carelessness. Not a good thing, but all too common. The grip panel needs to be slightly rotated back at the base, not just lifted up from the frame to avoid this blunder.
The Million dollar chip detracts from the gun's value.
dju

[Neil Young]

The notch Jerry is referring to is on the front/top of the left grip. This is where the trigger extension of the magazine safety came through. The pistol also has a sear safety, which is normal for police used Lugers. Good looking piece.

Neil

[Curly1]

Welcome to the forum Dean.

That is a nice rig you have there.

[alanint]

Dean,

Send you grip to Hugh here on the site for an almost invisible repair. It is a shame your chip is as large as it is. It really detracts from an otherwise very nice pistol.

[Don M]

Dean, I'm virtually certain that your pistol had a grip strap marking that was ground off. This was probably done by the police after unit marking was terminated in 1937. Most police did not go to this much trouble but some apparently did.

[Douglas Jr.]

Is it common to see the mid section of the toggle train with the last THREE digits from the serial number? The same for the sideplate at such late pistol (I had seen on 1900 commercials though).
I don't remember to have seen it before, but I'm far from be an expert on Weimar Police Lugers.

Douglas.

[spleeft]

Thanks for all the replies !
So, I can have that grip "repaired'? I see and understand why it is chipped at the top left and right. And that the chip near the saftey is just from the grip being removed carelessly,( but if the grip was removed , that means someone was caring for the gun and cleaning it,correct? )
What I dont get is, why was the magazine safety installed or removed, what is the timeline on that?
I also made some headway on the receiver markings, The first stamp on the left is the" AYA4 Eagle is the 1920/21 Weimar Military Police Proof" meaning this was the first stamp added maybe?? The second looks identical , correct ? Why would there be two in a row? And the third is another type of Military Police proof?
I got that info here http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com...eimarpol21.htm
And why would the gun be made for the Military police, and then a policeman grind off the grip strap marking?
Thanks again for all of the info !

[Don M]

Dean,

The missing chip on the upper right of the left grip just means someone removed the grip carelessly. Whether or not the gun was well cared-for depends on its condition.

The magazine and sear safeties were installed pusuant to an August 1933 order. The magazine safeties proved to be a bad idea and were ordered disabled in 1937.

The markings on the right side of the receiver are E/ArA4 and are inspection stamps of the Ausrüstungsamt which was the name of the military procurement office in the early Weimar years. The inspection stamps were applied at successive stages of manufacture. Your pistol was manufactured in early 1921. Soon after, this office was renamed Waffenamt and later markings on 1921-dated DWMs are E/WaA4. The third stamp may be a WaA but I can't tell from the photo.

The 1920 and 1921-dated DWMs were manufactured for both police and military and procured through the military. Your gun was probably issued immediately to the police and received the 1920 government property stamp unnecessarily.

As to why the police unit marking was ground off, my best speculation is in my earlier reply.

I would be very leery of historical explanations by PIA. They are way out of date!

[spleeft]

Thanks Don, ( and everyone else ) .
Its a real shame i cant talk to my Dad about this stuff ( he passed away last week ) , because it is very interesting. Although we both enjoyed shooting and guns in general, he was in Florida and Im up here in Maryland, so it was hard to get together.
It is however , very therapeutic to learn about his guns, and carry on his hobby, which is now mine to a much greater extent. Thanks so much for the help !
Now I just need to decide if I should fire the gun, ( i'm not even sure what ammo it takes, 9mm i think) and learn how to break it down and clean it, or just keep it as is....or even get the grip repaired like some one suggested.....??

[Don M]

Dean, I am very sorry for the recent loss of your father. I suspect many of us regret the things we did not discuss with our parents when we could.

Unless the barrel has been changed or lined, your pistol is 9mm. You can confirm this with a round wooden pencil. If the eraser end slips into the barrel easily, it is 9mm. If you do shoot it, don't use hot ammo. The Winchester "White Box" ammo seems to be the favorite around here. You will probably receive conflicting advice about the wisdom of firing this weapon.

There is a breakdown instruction on this forum (http://www.lugerforum.com/) although it probably covers a more complete teardown than you need. You might try searching the web for "Luger field strip" or similar terms.

As mentioned above, Hugh Clark (hhclark@wildblue.net) can repair the "million dollar chip" but you may want to look into buying a set of replacement grips.

Douglas, I haven't seen three digits used on a toggle either!

[mrerick]

Dean,

There are a variety of opinions about firing all matching collector grade Lugers (which, I believe you have there).

There are parts on Lugers that are more prone to breakage than others. They are well made pistols, with generally fine metallurgy, but they can and do break. Break a part on an all matching Luger and you've damaged it's value both historically and financially. 60% is typical after the cost of procuring a replacement non-matching part and having it fitted.

Some people buy separate "shooter" grade pistols that wouldn't lose further value if a part was broken. Others buy the most likely parts and swap them in.

Extractor, ejector, breech block and rear receiver finish damage is the most common. The firing pin was fluted after your pistol was manufactured to prevent gas pressure damage in a primer blow out.

I personally resist the temptation to fire them and one especially used for shooting.

BTW, I too thought the three digit numbering was unusual. Back to the reference books...

Marc