full auto luger!

sverre · 06-02-2003, 07:29 PM

can anybody post some pictures of the auto luger?
who made them? does anybody have one? can any luger be converted to a full auto?

<img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" /> Sverre

Edward Tinker · 06-02-2003, 08:10 PM

There have been some experimental models, during testing it was decided that it was a practical weapon, too high of rate of fire and to small of a magazine. The Germans tried several things, finally decided on the Trommel magazines as a good compromise, extended magazine, but semi-auto fire.

A friend had a S&W 59 that had been messed with and half the time it would double or triple pop a round. Was impossible to fire and not much fun besides being illegal without the proper permits in the USA. He traded it to a gunsmith or something like that so it could be fixed.

Ed

sverre · 06-02-2003, 08:22 PM

are there any "out there" today? or were there few made? because my friend said thet he had seen one in action once. i would really like to own one.

Sverre

Pete Ebbink · 06-02-2003, 08:42 PM

Sverre,

Here is a scan of the 1914 patent drawing that the mexican brothers, the Navarro's, submitted for their "automatic" luger design :

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

sverre · 06-02-2003, 08:49 PM

thanks for the nice scan ill save that one

Sverre.

Herb · 06-02-2003, 09:44 PM

According to Harry Jones, Luger Variations, Vol I all of these Machine Pistols were experimental and none were ever produced for commercial sales. The 'L' stands for Langsam (slow) and the 'S' stands for schnell (fast).

sverre · 06-02-2003, 11:57 PM

more pics great

, so this was only a experimental gun, the one my freind claims to have seen was an artillery model. do you think anyone else than the Navarro's could have made these guns? Tinker said something about germans doing these experiments too.

Sverre.

George Anderson · 06-03-2003, 07:47 AM

I held one in my hands several years ago while visiting a gentleman in Arizona.

sverre · 06-03-2003, 07:40 PM

what model was it?

sverre

George Anderson · 06-03-2003, 11:29 PM

sverre, I don't recall, but it was the real deal.

John Sabato · 06-04-2003, 07:46 AM

Sverre,

What are the laws concerning the ownership of full auto weapons by private citizens in Norway?

sverre · 06-04-2003, 12:24 PM

you cant owne a full auto in norway, with no exceptions (maybe a collectors item if its old enuff). we have very harsh gun laws here in norway. even the police dont carry guns.
i dont like it.

Sverre.

John Sabato · 06-04-2003, 01:49 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by sverre:
are there any "out there" today? or were there few made? because my friend said thet he had seen one in action once. i would really like to own one.

Sverre<hr /></blockquote>Too bad Sverre, I thought you original statement implied that you COULD own one... not just desire one like the rest of us

I can't afford to feed the semi-auto guns I own now... I would have to take a second job to feed a full auto!

sverre · 06-10-2003, 09:32 AM

i checked today if its possible to own a full auto weapon in norway, and if found out you can but! you have to be a member of a club that does combat shooting, and you have to be a member of nfps(norwgian combat shooting asosiation) and be reconmended by the forman of the club and nfps and you have to document that you shoot twise a week (signed by the forman). not wery fun but i guess its a good thing, so less criminal have real guns.

sverre.

sverre · 06-10-2003, 09:37 AM

but the full auto luger is a collectors item so i guess it goes under different rules than an ordinary smg like the mp-5.
if i had one i would never fire it.

Sverre.

John Sabato · 06-10-2003, 11:27 AM

<img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" /> Sverre, you have made the primary mistake in interpreting the law. The law you describe does NOT prevent crime. Criminals will obtain and use guns regardless of the law... That is why they are criminals...because they ignore the law.

Don't be confused about the purpose of gun laws...The control of firearms owned by citizens is an infringement of your freedom, that your lawmakers have imposed on you...and the citizens of your country have accepted this. These kinds of laws make criminals out of otherwise law abiding citizens.

The guns owned and used by Criminals have nothing to do with it.

sverre · 06-10-2003, 12:16 PM

but as a result of these laws, these weapons are not wery common in norway for civilians, and are rarely used in crimes, i guess criminals will get guns regardless but this way they wont have powerful smgs at their hands spraying bullets at innocent bistanders. besides they are not very good for hunting or protection. i love these guns and would like to own one but i dont know if i want to go through all the hassel of ownig one.

Sverre

John Sabato · 06-10-2003, 12:36 PM

Sverre,

Just so you know... the ownership of machine guns has been controlled and taxed in this country since 1934. In all this time. There has never been a machine gun legally owned by a civilian used in a crime. There have been countless crimes perpetrated by criminals using contraband machine guns... that were stolen or manufactured illegally.

sverre · 06-10-2003, 05:38 PM

yes but because they are legal, there is alot of them in sirculation, and making it easyer to get ahold of one. i can believe that no one who legaly own a machinegun would do crimes with it but the drug addict\gangbanger that breaks in to his house probably would or the guy he sells it to.

Sverre

John -Melb · 06-10-2003, 08:08 PM

Sverre,
Perhaps the "full-auto" LP08 your friend claimed to have seen was just a standard LP08 being fired REALLY fast. It's not real accurate but with the stock fitted you can put a fair bit a lead in the air in a real hurry.
Some years ago, when I was a member of a very strait laced "UIT" club I was having a quiet shoot on the range one Saturday afternoon. Only myself and another "rogue" were around so I fitted the butt just to see how quick I could get five shots off. People come from all directions to find out what made that horrible noise. Fortunately, by the time everbody arrived the LP08 had been quickly cleared by a "partner in crime" (another ex-soldier)and put away, we were both by then reloading our percussion pistols and pleaded ignorance.
Those people never did get use to me!

06-02-2003, 07:29 PM	#1
sverre User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 48 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	full auto luger! can anybody post some pictures of the auto luger? who made them? does anybody have one? can any luger be converted to a full auto? <img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" /> Sverre

06-02-2003, 08:10 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	There have been some experimental models, during testing it was decided that it was a practical weapon, too high of rate of fire and to small of a magazine. The Germans tried several things, finally decided on the Trommel magazines as a good compromise, extended magazine, but semi-auto fire. A friend had a S&W 59 that had been messed with and half the time it would double or triple pop a round. Was impossible to fire and not much fun besides being illegal without the proper permits in the USA. He traded it to a gunsmith or something like that so it could be fixed. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-02-2003, 09:44 PM	#6
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	According to Harry Jones, Luger Variations, Vol I all of these Machine Pistols were experimental and none were ever produced for commercial sales. The 'L' stands for Langsam (slow) and the 'S' stands for schnell (fast). <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

06-02-2003, 11:57 PM	#7
sverre User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 48 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	more pics great, so this was only a experimental gun, the one my freind claims to have seen was an artillery model. do you think anyone else than the Navarro's could have made these guns? Tinker said something about germans doing these experiments too. Sverre.

06-04-2003, 07:46 AM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Sverre, What are the laws concerning the ownership of full auto weapons by private citizens in Norway? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-02-2003, 08:22 PM	#3
sverre User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 48 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	are there any "out there" today? or were there few made? because my friend said thet he had seen one in action once. i would really like to own one. Sverre

06-02-2003, 08:42 PM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Sverre, Here is a scan of the 1914 patent drawing that the mexican brothers, the Navarro's, submitted for their "automatic" luger design : Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

06-02-2003, 08:49 PM	#5
sverre User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 48 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	thanks for the nice scan ill save that one Sverre.

06-03-2003, 07:47 AM	#8
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	I held one in my hands several years ago while visiting a gentleman in Arizona.

06-03-2003, 07:40 PM	#9
sverre User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 48 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	what model was it? sverre

06-03-2003, 11:29 PM	#10
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	sverre, I don't recall, but it was the real deal.

06-04-2003, 12:24 PM	#12
sverre User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 48 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	you cant owne a full auto in norway, with no exceptions (maybe a collectors item if its old enuff). we have very harsh gun laws here in norway. even the police dont carry guns. i dont like it. Sverre.

06-04-2003, 01:49 PM	#13
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by sverre: are there any "out there" today? or were there few made? because my friend said thet he had seen one in action once. i would really like to own one. Sverre</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Too bad Sverre, I thought you original statement implied that you COULD own one... not just desire one like the rest of us I can't afford to feed the semi-auto guns I own now... I would have to take a second job to feed a full auto! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-10-2003, 09:32 AM	#14
sverre User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 48 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	i checked today if its possible to own a full auto weapon in norway, and if found out you can but! you have to be a member of a club that does combat shooting, and you have to be a member of nfps(norwgian combat shooting asosiation) and be reconmended by the forman of the club and nfps and you have to document that you shoot twise a week (signed by the forman). not wery fun but i guess its a good thing, so less criminal have real guns. sverre.

06-10-2003, 09:37 AM	#15
sverre User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 48 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	but the full auto luger is a collectors item so i guess it goes under different rules than an ordinary smg like the mp-5. if i had one i would never fire it. Sverre.

06-10-2003, 11:27 AM	#16
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	<img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" /> Sverre, you have made the primary mistake in interpreting the law. The law you describe does NOT prevent crime. Criminals will obtain and use guns regardless of the law... That is why they are criminals...because they ignore the law. Don't be confused about the purpose of gun laws...The control of firearms owned by citizens is an infringement of your freedom, that your lawmakers have imposed on you...and the citizens of your country have accepted this. These kinds of laws make criminals out of otherwise law abiding citizens. The guns owned and used by Criminals have nothing to do with it. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-10-2003, 12:16 PM	#17
sverre User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 48 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	but as a result of these laws, these weapons are not wery common in norway for civilians, and are rarely used in crimes, i guess criminals will get guns regardless but this way they wont have powerful smgs at their hands spraying bullets at innocent bistanders. besides they are not very good for hunting or protection. i love these guns and would like to own one but i dont know if i want to go through all the hassel of ownig one. Sverre

06-10-2003, 12:36 PM	#18
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Sverre, Just so you know... the ownership of machine guns has been controlled and taxed in this country since 1934. In all this time. There has never been a machine gun legally owned by a civilian used in a crime. There have been countless crimes perpetrated by criminals using contraband machine guns... that were stolen or manufactured illegally. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-10-2003, 05:38 PM	#19
sverre User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 48 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	yes but because they are legal, there is alot of them in sirculation, and making it easyer to get ahold of one. i can believe that no one who legaly own a machinegun would do crimes with it but the drug addict\gangbanger that breaks in to his house probably would or the guy he sells it to. Sverre

06-10-2003, 08:08 PM	#20
John -Melb User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melbourne, Peoples Republic of Australia! Posts: 145 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sverre, Perhaps the "full-auto" LP08 your friend claimed to have seen was just a standard LP08 being fired REALLY fast. It's not real accurate but with the stock fitted you can put a fair bit a lead in the air in a real hurry. Some years ago, when I was a member of a very strait laced "UIT" club I was having a quiet shoot on the range one Saturday afternoon. Only myself and another "rogue" were around so I fitted the butt just to see how quick I could get five shots off. People come from all directions to find out what made that horrible noise. Fortunately, by the time everbody arrived the LP08 had been quickly cleared by a "partner in crime" (another ex-soldier)and put away, we were both by then reloading our percussion pistols and pleaded ignorance. Those people never did get use to me!