Swiss lugers collection

NavyLugerLover · 09-28-2006, 04:35 AM

Here are my Swiss lugers....

Enjoy!

(just have a look to the 1900, it has a little problem, 1900 breech block has been replaced by a 1906 one. I'm looking for a 1900 breech block to change it...)

policeluger · 09-28-2006, 05:35 AM

I did enjoy, thanks

NavyLugerLover · 09-28-2006, 06:00 AM

I need to find a 1906 "cross in sunburst", as I've got the "cross in shield".
And perhaps a 1929 with red grips.
Swiss collection will be complete.

Pete Ebbink · 10-03-2006, 01:29 PM

I have lightened-up Thierry's photos for more detail/viewing.

Lovely group of Swiss lugers !!!

Ron Wood · 10-03-2006, 05:29 PM

Love those Swiss! Thanks for the photos. You might want to leave the '06 breechblock in the 1900, since the 1900 receiver had to be notched to clear the new model extractor. I don't know how well it would function if you returned to the old model breechblock and extractor.

Here is most of my little Swiss "family".

shadow · 10-03-2006, 06:11 PM

What is this tool in the photos?

I guess the following device was replaced with latex after 1918.

Chris

policeluger · 10-03-2006, 06:35 PM

Ron....nice, who did the refinishing???

Pete Ebbink · 10-03-2006, 07:00 PM

Chris,

Swiss multi-blade screwdriver normally issued with Swiss rifles of various models/makes.

The thumb-screw on the side loosens the blade; which has two differing sized flat blades. Nice fit on luger grip screws; so many folks added them to their luger accessories.

The muzzle cover in Ron Wood's posting is a Swiss/French-made (if I recall correctly) muzzle cover issued in the 1950's or so. Not issued with Swiss Ordnance lugers, but nice to add to one's collection.

Ron was probably lucky enough to buy the Luthy covers for $ 5 each in the 1960-70's.

I found myself lucky (or stupid...) and willing to pay $ 125 for mine about 3 years ago. I found a 2nd. one at a Tulsa gun show buried in junk parts boxes and was glad to pay $ 40. That owner may not have known what he had.

Here is one a LF member posted up about a year or so ago :

Ron Wood · 10-03-2006, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Ron....nice, who did the refinishing???

Howard,
I did. Amazing what you can do with a rough brick, a Brillo pad and some spray paint.

NavyLugerLover · 10-04-2006, 03:28 AM

Ron, your Swiss lugers are nice!
It is not a problem to change the 1906 breechblock by a 1900.
I tried to fire with one a friend gave to me for a trial. It works.

All my lugers have the good pouch and spare mag.

Here is my favourite harmonica:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...644reduced.jpg

(Photo inserted into thread by Moderator, P. Ebbink on 10-4-06 )

Pete Ebbink · 10-04-2006, 12:38 PM

Hi Thierry,

Would it be possible to know what left-side receiver stampings your M1906 Swiss cross/shield luger may have ? Knowing its serial number would also be useful.

You can send info. via the Private Message feature if you prefer not to reveal serial number, publically.

I have been tracking the M1906 cross/shields for the unique variation in the receiver markings (i.e. inspection stampings) and would like to add your luger to my database if possible.

I do not record owner-info. in the database, only serial number and variety of receiver markings.

Thanks in advance for your help !

Ron Wood · 10-04-2006, 01:20 PM

Just lovely Thierry! A harmonica like that is music to my eyes.

Pete Ebbink · 10-04-2006, 02:04 PM

Looks more like a pan flute

NavyLugerLover · 10-05-2006, 05:10 AM

Pete, here is a picture of the cross in shield Luger, you can try to see the marking (cross over V : Vogelsang proof mark).

Number is 13866 (of 1913), no P marking anywhere.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...219reduced.jpg

--->(Photo inserted into thread by Moderator, P. Ebbink on 10-4-06 ) how can I do this by myself?

Steinar · 10-05-2006, 08:01 AM

Wow.. very nice indeed.

NavyLugerLover, is there a lanyard on the one up to the left?

NavyLugerLover · 10-05-2006, 08:06 AM

Yes, I had it with this short piece of leather (as it sewn, it is impossible to take it off). It seems original.

Steinar · 10-05-2006, 08:13 AM

Oh.. it is.. Better leave it on then.

Btw. hoping for some photos of those navy's also.. Looks amazing.

Pete Ebbink · 10-05-2006, 02:29 PM

Thierry,

Thanks for the info and your photo of your Cross/Shield.

I inserted the photo into your posting, above. There was a photo-posting tutorial in one of the other sections on the LF. You might look for it.

BTW...your serial # 13866 is very exciting. Your gun is the 2nd. I have recorded with ONLY the " +/V " proof stamping on the left side of the receiver. The other one was serial # 13937, BUT it had a " +/M " on the right side of the receiver. Does yours ???

The sequence of inspection markings on the left side of the receiver from earliest to the most late in the Cross/Shield luger now sequences as :

1. " + " only

2. " + " and " +/V "

3. " +/V " only

4. " +/M " and " +/M "

(I am hoping some Cross/Shield lugers with " +/M " show up, but none have been reported so far. When the '24 Bern was first produced in 1918, the stamping started with " +/M "; so maybe some of the last Cross/Shields got this lone " +/M + stamping as well in late 1914...???)

There may be nothing significant about the changes in stamps used. Maybe the most simple explanation would be dies broke or were worn out and they used what they had until new stamps were ready.

But I am collecting serial numbers to hopefully track more specifically when the changes occured in this grouping of Cross/Shield of only 6, 164 lugers.

NavyLugerLover · 10-06-2006, 03:01 AM

I looked at the other side, it has a + over M on right side.
Here is the picture:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...224reduced.jpg

So this gun is :

+ over V on left side

+ over M on right side

Pete Ebbink · 10-06-2006, 02:14 PM

Hi Thierry,

As with the other luger I mentioned, your luger probably had its receiver originally inspected/proofed by Voglesang before he retired in 1912 but was finally proofed by Muhlemann after he became chief inspector in 1913.

I would guess he was too prideful to stamp on the same side as Voglesang did and just decided to stamp on the right side of the receiver. Just a guess on my part with no documentation to support this.

Another scenario : I have also seen two (2) M906 cross/sunburst Ordnance lugers made prior to 1909 that were reworked (and rebarreled) and had the " +/M " added to the right side as well...so it seems Muhlemann stamped on the right side for major reworks to luger, as well. I have also been told of one (1) M1900 Swiss luger with the " +/M " on the right side; but I have not seen this one in person and the owner was not equiped to send digital photos.

Since the serial number of your luger dates its manufacture to 1913, I think the first scenario is probably what explains your luger # 13866 and the other one owned by a LF member that was numbered # 13937 which was also made in 1913...the first year Muhlemann was chief.

09-28-2006, 04:35 AM	#1
NavyLugerLover User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: American Citizen outside the USA (Austria) Posts: 65 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Swiss lugers collection Here are my Swiss lugers.... Enjoy! (just have a look to the 1900, it has a little problem, 1900 breech block has been replaced by a 1906 one. I'm looking for a 1900 breech block to change it...) __________________ Swiss Lugers, (.30): DWM 1900, 1906 2nd variation, W+F 1906-24, 1929 Privat, 1929 Military, 9 mm 1929 Military. WW1 DWM German Lugers (9mm): Lange Pistolen P08-14 1916 & 1917, P08 1913, P08-14 1917, Navy P1904 altered safety, Navy P04-1906 downward safety. WW 2 Mauser German Lugers (9mm): 42-1940, byf 41, byf 42 black widow. And some other things...

09-28-2006, 06:00 AM	#3
NavyLugerLover User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: American Citizen outside the USA (Austria) Posts: 65 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I need to find a 1906 "cross in sunburst", as I've got the "cross in shield". And perhaps a 1929 with red grips. Swiss collection will be complete. __________________ Swiss Lugers, (.30): DWM 1900, 1906 2nd variation, W+F 1906-24, 1929 Privat, 1929 Military, 9 mm 1929 Military. WW1 DWM German Lugers (9mm): Lange Pistolen P08-14 1916 & 1917, P08 1913, P08-14 1917, Navy P1904 altered safety, Navy P04-1906 downward safety. WW 2 Mauser German Lugers (9mm): 42-1940, byf 41, byf 42 black widow. And some other things...

10-03-2006, 05:29 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Love those Swiss! Thanks for the photos. You might want to leave the '06 breechblock in the 1900, since the 1900 receiver had to be notched to clear the new model extractor. I don't know how well it would function if you returned to the old model breechblock and extractor. Here is most of my little Swiss "family". __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-03-2006, 06:11 PM	#6
shadow User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down The Shore Posts: 245 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	What is this tool in the photos? I guess the following device was replaced with latex after 1918. Chris __________________ The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good. George Washington

10-04-2006, 03:28 AM	#10
NavyLugerLover User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: American Citizen outside the USA (Austria) Posts: 65 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Ron, your Swiss lugers are nice! It is not a problem to change the 1906 breechblock by a 1900. I tried to fire with one a friend gave to me for a trial. It works. All my lugers have the good pouch and spare mag. Here is my favourite harmonica: http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...644reduced.jpg (Photo inserted into thread by Moderator, P. Ebbink on 10-4-06 ) __________________ Swiss Lugers, (.30): DWM 1900, 1906 2nd variation, W+F 1906-24, 1929 Privat, 1929 Military, 9 mm 1929 Military. WW1 DWM German Lugers (9mm): Lange Pistolen P08-14 1916 & 1917, P08 1913, P08-14 1917, Navy P1904 altered safety, Navy P04-1906 downward safety. WW 2 Mauser German Lugers (9mm): 42-1940, byf 41, byf 42 black widow. And some other things...

09-28-2006, 05:35 AM	#2
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	I did enjoy, thanks

10-03-2006, 01:29 PM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	I have lightened-up Thierry's photos for more detail/viewing. Lovely group of Swiss lugers !!!

10-03-2006, 06:35 PM	#7
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Ron....nice, who did the refinishing???

10-03-2006, 07:00 PM	#8
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Chris, Swiss multi-blade screwdriver normally issued with Swiss rifles of various models/makes. The thumb-screw on the side loosens the blade; which has two differing sized flat blades. Nice fit on luger grip screws; so many folks added them to their luger accessories. The muzzle cover in Ron Wood's posting is a Swiss/French-made (if I recall correctly) muzzle cover issued in the 1950's or so. Not issued with Swiss Ordnance lugers, but nice to add to one's collection. Ron was probably lucky enough to buy the Luthy covers for $ 5 each in the 1960-70's. I found myself lucky (or stupid...) and willing to pay $ 125 for mine about 3 years ago. I found a 2nd. one at a Tulsa gun show buried in junk parts boxes and was glad to pay $ 40. That owner may not have known what he had. Here is one a LF member posted up about a year or so ago :

10-04-2006, 12:38 PM	#11
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Thierry, Would it be possible to know what left-side receiver stampings your M1906 Swiss cross/shield luger may have ? Knowing its serial number would also be useful. You can send info. via the Private Message feature if you prefer not to reveal serial number, publically. I have been tracking the M1906 cross/shields for the unique variation in the receiver markings (i.e. inspection stampings) and would like to add your luger to my database if possible. I do not record owner-info. in the database, only serial number and variety of receiver markings. Thanks in advance for your help !

10-04-2006, 01:20 PM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Just lovely Thierry! A harmonica like that is music to my eyes. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-04-2006, 02:04 PM	#13
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Looks more like a pan flute

10-05-2006, 05:10 AM	#14
NavyLugerLover User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: American Citizen outside the USA (Austria) Posts: 65 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Pete, here is a picture of the cross in shield Luger, you can try to see the marking (cross over V : Vogelsang proof mark). Number is 13866 (of 1913), no P marking anywhere. http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...219reduced.jpg --->(Photo inserted into thread by Moderator, P. Ebbink on 10-4-06 ) how can I do this by myself? __________________ Swiss Lugers, (.30): DWM 1900, 1906 2nd variation, W+F 1906-24, 1929 Privat, 1929 Military, 9 mm 1929 Military. WW1 DWM German Lugers (9mm): Lange Pistolen P08-14 1916 & 1917, P08 1913, P08-14 1917, Navy P1904 altered safety, Navy P04-1906 downward safety. WW 2 Mauser German Lugers (9mm): 42-1940, byf 41, byf 42 black widow. And some other things...

10-05-2006, 08:01 AM	#15
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Wow.. very nice indeed. NavyLugerLover, is there a lanyard on the one up to the left? __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

10-05-2006, 08:06 AM	#16
NavyLugerLover User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: American Citizen outside the USA (Austria) Posts: 65 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Yes, I had it with this short piece of leather (as it sewn, it is impossible to take it off). It seems original. __________________ Swiss Lugers, (.30): DWM 1900, 1906 2nd variation, W+F 1906-24, 1929 Privat, 1929 Military, 9 mm 1929 Military. WW1 DWM German Lugers (9mm): Lange Pistolen P08-14 1916 & 1917, P08 1913, P08-14 1917, Navy P1904 altered safety, Navy P04-1906 downward safety. WW 2 Mauser German Lugers (9mm): 42-1940, byf 41, byf 42 black widow. And some other things...

10-05-2006, 08:13 AM	#17
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Oh.. it is.. Better leave it on then. Btw. hoping for some photos of those navy's also.. Looks amazing. __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

10-05-2006, 02:29 PM	#18
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Thierry, Thanks for the info and your photo of your Cross/Shield. I inserted the photo into your posting, above. There was a photo-posting tutorial in one of the other sections on the LF. You might look for it. BTW...your serial # 13866 is very exciting. Your gun is the 2nd. I have recorded with ONLY the " +/V " proof stamping on the left side of the receiver. The other one was serial # 13937, BUT it had a " +/M " on the right side of the receiver. Does yours ??? The sequence of inspection markings on the left side of the receiver from earliest to the most late in the Cross/Shield luger now sequences as : 1. " + " only 2. " + " and " +/V " 3. " +/V " only 4. " +/M " and " +/M " (I am hoping some Cross/Shield lugers with " +/M " show up, but none have been reported so far. When the '24 Bern was first produced in 1918, the stamping started with " +/M "; so maybe some of the last Cross/Shields got this lone " +/M + stamping as well in late 1914...???) There may be nothing significant about the changes in stamps used. Maybe the most simple explanation would be dies broke or were worn out and they used what they had until new stamps were ready. But I am collecting serial numbers to hopefully track more specifically when the changes occured in this grouping of Cross/Shield of only 6, 164 lugers.

10-06-2006, 03:01 AM	#19
NavyLugerLover User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: American Citizen outside the USA (Austria) Posts: 65 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I looked at the other side, it has a + over M on right side. Here is the picture: http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...224reduced.jpg So this gun is : + over V on left side + over M on right side __________________ Swiss Lugers, (.30): DWM 1900, 1906 2nd variation, W+F 1906-24, 1929 Privat, 1929 Military, 9 mm 1929 Military. WW1 DWM German Lugers (9mm): Lange Pistolen P08-14 1916 & 1917, P08 1913, P08-14 1917, Navy P1904 altered safety, Navy P04-1906 downward safety. WW 2 Mauser German Lugers (9mm): 42-1940, byf 41, byf 42 black widow. And some other things...

10-06-2006, 02:14 PM	#20
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Thierry, As with the other luger I mentioned, your luger probably had its receiver originally inspected/proofed by Voglesang before he retired in 1912 but was finally proofed by Muhlemann after he became chief inspector in 1913. I would guess he was too prideful to stamp on the same side as Voglesang did and just decided to stamp on the right side of the receiver. Just a guess on my part with no documentation to support this. Another scenario : I have also seen two (2) M906 cross/sunburst Ordnance lugers made prior to 1909 that were reworked (and rebarreled) and had the " +/M " added to the right side as well...so it seems Muhlemann stamped on the right side for major reworks to luger, as well. I have also been told of one (1) M1900 Swiss luger with the " +/M " on the right side; but I have not seen this one in person and the owner was not equiped to send digital photos. Since the serial number of your luger dates its manufacture to 1913, I think the first scenario is probably what explains your luger # 13866 and the other one owned by a LF member that was numbered # 13937 which was also made in 1913...the first year Muhlemann was chief.