When to restrict gun access

shadow · 05-24-2007, 01:14 AM

My father and I have gone shooting together for my entire life and guns have always been in his house. He is getting old and forgetful and I thought that his forgetfulness was juts part of the aging process. Today he was diagnosed with mild dementia (we plan to get a second opinion). In my opinion he still seems OK to go shooting and to have guns in the house, but if things worsen, at some point in the near future I may have to take his guns out of his house and move them to my house.

Has anyone here dealt with this before, and if so could you give me some guidance based on your experience.

Thanks,

Chris

Edward Tinker · 05-24-2007, 07:30 AM

Sent you a PM.

My grandfather had dementia (also called alzheimers) and he had quit going downstairs to the basement, so things were left there, although pistols were unloaded and locked in metal cabinets.

I would guess the best way is to keep reminding him that he promised all the guns to you and you'd like to take them home. Whether true or not, eventually you'll want to keep him safe. Dementia is a nasty disease that can stay lite and not affect them very much, or can get worse and worse, they act like a child. I pray that it is solved, halted and your dad just ages gracefully.

ed

Brent B. · 05-24-2007, 07:41 AM

Chris, first of all I'm very sorry to hear about your father. We went thru this a few years ago with my dad. I would suggest talking about your concerns with your mother if she's still living. Sometimes things seem to progress a lot faster then one would expect. Even if the guns are at your house you can still take him out shooting, just keep a eye on him at the range and only take a couple with you. Hope this is of some help. Brent B.

Ron Smith · 05-24-2007, 08:59 AM

Chris,

I didn't have to go through this with my Dad. He passed 23 years ago. However, I have been dealing with my Mom who suffers from dementia for the last 7 years. I finally sought professional advice. I was told that this is the point that the "parent - child" roles begin to reverse. You have to take the parental role.

It is very difficult to do, but you have to do what is safest and best for them. Even under protest and at the cost of hurting their feelings. There really aren't any options. It progresses very rapidly and unexpectedly. It is very emotional and painful for all concerned.

Also, be prepared for the criticism and accusations from outsiders. Those who will assume you are doing it out of greed for your Father's possessions. Until they have to deal with it on a personal basis, you won't be able to convince them otherwise.

Best of Luck..

Ron

Steinar · 05-24-2007, 09:06 AM

Chris, I'm sorry to hear about your father having mild dementria.

I have been trough the same as you might be going trough. Ever since, I have payed a little extra attention whenever there is new information about threatment/medications. There is not much that helps, but as I understand, there is a newly developed medication called Ebixa, in adition to the most common Aricept, Exelon and Reminyl. If and how they work, I don't know. It might be something worth taking up with his doctor next time, as early as possible.
(They are not ment to make the patients better, but can help reduce/stop the 'acetylkolinesterase' in the brain.)
As to the guns, this can be touchy subject, and I think the best to judge is yourself. There are many things to consider, dementria can sometimes lead to the person becoming depressed, esecially on an early stage. To have something familiar to hold and talk about can reduce this (like fondeling with a EMPTY gun). Shooting at the range could also be a positive experience.
Later, IF things go for the worse and reality gets twisted, I think it's important that the guns is taken away and not used. 'Things' might change within a second if badly affected.
Can't give any better reply to you Chris.. I don't know much 'medical' things around the subject, but if there is some way I could help you, I'm glad to do so.
Wish you and your dad all the best.

lugerholsterrepair · 05-24-2007, 01:09 PM

Chris, Morgan has given you some very good advice. One thing to think about..Doctors kill about a planeload of people every month. Mistakes and misdiagnosis. Dementia in the elderly is often cured with nutrition. Dementia can be misdiagnosed and is simply a blood sugar condition. Before I gave dear ole Dad a handfull of pills I would take a close look at his eating habits. Elderly folks left to their own devices are prone to medical problems directly related to nutrition. Might not be, but a good place to start...Jerry Burney

Jack Lawman · 05-24-2007, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ron Smith
Chris,

I didn't have to go through this with my Dad. He passed 23 years ago. However, I have been dealing with my Mom who suffers from dementia for the last 7 years. I finally sought professional advice. I was told that this is the point that the "parent - child" roles begin to reverse. You have to take the parental role.

It is very difficult to do, but you have to do what is safest and best for them. Even under protest and at the cost of hurting their feelings. There really aren't any options. It progresses very rapidly and unexpectedly. It is very emotional and painful for all concerned.

Also, be prepared for the criticism and accusations from outsiders. Those who will assume you are doing it out of greed for your Father's possessions. Until they have to deal with it on a personal basis, you won't be able to convince them otherwise.

Best of Luck..

Ron

Ron nailed it! I underlined a couple of points that are the essence of the problem. It is important to remeber that this is one of the "ironies of life" (a job for which you should be awarded medals will garner only suspicion and ill will). It's not always that bad, but it usually is. YOUR sanity is of paramount concern when dealing with this type of problem. Stay mentally strong with the knowledge that you're doing the right thing. Good Luck.

Jack

Edward Tinker · 05-24-2007, 01:28 PM

For my grandmother she would not remember eating / not eating, taking her vitamins or her medications, which included blood pressure etc, so the point is, all of this is important (including taking medications that helped). The family worked out habits, checking with her often, etc. It is like folks said, reversal of roles...

Ed

shadow · 05-24-2007, 10:19 PM

Everyone,

Thanks for the guidance. I am trying to learn as much about dementia as quickly as possible. I plan to take him to Thomas Jefferson University Hospital in Philadelphia, PA to get a second opinion on his condition. Hopefully the initial diagnosis was wrong and it does turn out to be something reversible like nutrition or a brain tumor, but I will prepare for the worst while hoping for the best. The gun question is not something I would ask a doctor, and I knew good guidance would be found here.

I have allot of respect for my father, and if the initial diagnosis is proven correct, this will be a hard pill for me to swallow. I will keep a close eye on him, and will try to keep emotion out of making the decision of if and when the guns come to my house.

Thanks,

Chris

Ron Wood · 05-24-2007, 11:49 PM

A friend of mine went through this experience. I helped him take the firing pins out of all the guns (there were 6) and lable them as to which gun they belonged. His dad never went hunting but he had his guns to look at and hold until he couldn't anymore. He never noticed the missing firing pins.

c3006 · 05-26-2007, 11:07 AM

Ron
I have done that same thing for people in the past,always worries me that in a time of need they would try and defend there self with a disabled weapon. Life throws some had decisions our way sometimes. My motherinlaw was diagnosed with dementia and when we got a second opinion they discovered pressure on her brian from a injury she had incurred several years before,after a shunt was installed she made a complete recovery and is doing great. Good luck to you and your father Chris. clint

tenbears · 05-26-2007, 12:38 PM

Read this post with much interest. My mother too is going through this condition. And she is going down hill fast. Took awhile to realize what she had. I think this is one of the worst things possible that can happen to a family member.

pipeman45 · 05-26-2007, 09:10 PM

I went through this with my father a few years back. He had a brain tumor and we were afraid that he may do harm to himself or others when not in his right mind. Some gun locks helped the whole family sleep better. He thought it was a good idea because we told him it was to keep the grandchildren safe when they visited. He never even ask where the keys were.

nhdblfan · 05-27-2007, 07:19 PM

Unfortunatly, I too am going through this,the Dementia not the guns, with my 87 year old mother and feel for all that posted with loved ones that have it as well.It is not a easy thing to have to go through and sometimes just knowing that others have been down this road helps.Chris you mentioned Phila,my mother is a nursing home there that has a special trained folks to help deal with this.If I can be of any help with the little I know of the local area help let me know.Its so good that you are able to spend so much time with him now,make the most of it.
Dave

05-24-2007, 01:14 AM	#1
shadow User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down The Shore Posts: 245 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	When to restrict gun access My father and I have gone shooting together for my entire life and guns have always been in his house. He is getting old and forgetful and I thought that his forgetfulness was juts part of the aging process. Today he was diagnosed with mild dementia (we plan to get a second opinion). In my opinion he still seems OK to go shooting and to have guns in the house, but if things worsen, at some point in the near future I may have to take his guns out of his house and move them to my house. Has anyone here dealt with this before, and if so could you give me some guidance based on your experience. Thanks, Chris __________________ The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good. George Washington

05-24-2007, 08:59 AM	#4
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Chris, I didn't have to go through this with my Dad. He passed 23 years ago. However, I have been dealing with my Mom who suffers from dementia for the last 7 years. I finally sought professional advice. I was told that this is the point that the "parent - child" roles begin to reverse. You have to take the parental role. It is very difficult to do, but you have to do what is safest and best for them. Even under protest and at the cost of hurting their feelings. There really aren't any options. It progresses very rapidly and unexpectedly. It is very emotional and painful for all concerned. Also, be prepared for the criticism and accusations from outsiders. Those who will assume you are doing it out of greed for your Father's possessions. Until they have to deal with it on a personal basis, you won't be able to convince them otherwise. Best of Luck.. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

05-24-2007, 09:06 AM	#5
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Chris, I'm sorry to hear about your father having mild dementria. I have been trough the same as you might be going trough. Ever since, I have payed a little extra attention whenever there is new information about threatment/medications. There is not much that helps, but as I understand, there is a newly developed medication called Ebixa, in adition to the most common Aricept, Exelon and Reminyl. If and how they work, I don't know. It might be something worth taking up with his doctor next time, as early as possible. (They are not ment to make the patients better, but can help reduce/stop the 'acetylkolinesterase' in the brain.) As to the guns, this can be touchy subject, and I think the best to judge is yourself. There are many things to consider, dementria can sometimes lead to the person becoming depressed, esecially on an early stage. To have something familiar to hold and talk about can reduce this (like fondeling with a EMPTY gun). Shooting at the range could also be a positive experience. Later, IF things go for the worse and reality gets twisted, I think it's important that the guns is taken away and not used. 'Things' might change within a second if badly affected. Can't give any better reply to you Chris.. I don't know much 'medical' things around the subject, but if there is some way I could help you, I'm glad to do so. Wish you and your dad all the best. __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

05-24-2007, 01:09 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,922 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,434 Posts	Chris, Morgan has given you some very good advice. One thing to think about..Doctors kill about a planeload of people every month. Mistakes and misdiagnosis. Dementia in the elderly is often cured with nutrition. Dementia can be misdiagnosed and is simply a blood sugar condition. Before I gave dear ole Dad a handfull of pills I would take a close look at his eating habits. Elderly folks left to their own devices are prone to medical problems directly related to nutrition. Might not be, but a good place to start...Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

05-24-2007, 01:28 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,927 Thanks: 2,028 Thanked 4,525 Times in 2,090 Posts	For my grandmother she would not remember eating / not eating, taking her vitamins or her medications, which included blood pressure etc, so the point is, all of this is important (including taking medications that helped). The family worked out habits, checking with her often, etc. It is like folks said, reversal of roles... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

05-24-2007, 07:30 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,927 Thanks: 2,028 Thanked 4,525 Times in 2,090 Posts	Sent you a PM. My grandfather had dementia (also called alzheimers) and he had quit going downstairs to the basement, so things were left there, although pistols were unloaded and locked in metal cabinets. I would guess the best way is to keep reminding him that he promised all the guns to you and you'd like to take them home. Whether true or not, eventually you'll want to keep him safe. Dementia is a nasty disease that can stay lite and not affect them very much, or can get worse and worse, they act like a child. I pray that it is solved, halted and your dad just ages gracefully. ed

05-24-2007, 07:41 AM	#3
Brent B. User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Chris, first of all I'm very sorry to hear about your father. We went thru this a few years ago with my dad. I would suggest talking about your concerns with your mother if she's still living. Sometimes things seem to progress a lot faster then one would expect. Even if the guns are at your house you can still take him out shooting, just keep a eye on him at the range and only take a couple with you. Hope this is of some help. Brent B.

05-24-2007, 10:19 PM	#9
shadow User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down The Shore Posts: 245 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Everyone, Thanks for the guidance. I am trying to learn as much about dementia as quickly as possible. I plan to take him to Thomas Jefferson University Hospital in Philadelphia, PA to get a second opinion on his condition. Hopefully the initial diagnosis was wrong and it does turn out to be something reversible like nutrition or a brain tumor, but I will prepare for the worst while hoping for the best. The gun question is not something I would ask a doctor, and I knew good guidance would be found here. I have allot of respect for my father, and if the initial diagnosis is proven correct, this will be a hard pill for me to swallow. I will keep a close eye on him, and will try to keep emotion out of making the decision of if and when the guns come to my house. Thanks, Chris __________________ The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good. George Washington

05-24-2007, 11:49 PM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,017 Thanks: 1,089 Thanked 5,164 Times in 1,700 Posts	A friend of mine went through this experience. I helped him take the firing pins out of all the guns (there were 6) and lable them as to which gun they belonged. His dad never went hunting but he had his guns to look at and hold until he couldn't anymore. He never noticed the missing firing pins. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

05-26-2007, 11:07 AM	#11
c3006 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: east tn Posts: 526 Thanks: 5 Thanked 12 Times in 5 Posts	Ron I have done that same thing for people in the past,always worries me that in a time of need they would try and defend there self with a disabled weapon. Life throws some had decisions our way sometimes. My motherinlaw was diagnosed with dementia and when we got a second opinion they discovered pressure on her brian from a injury she had incurred several years before,after a shunt was installed she made a complete recovery and is doing great. Good luck to you and your father Chris. clint __________________ Men Accustomed unto thier arms and their liberties will never endure the yoke. James Harrington 1776

05-26-2007, 12:38 PM	#12
tenbears User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 370 Thanks: 3 Thanked 26 Times in 15 Posts	Read this post with much interest. My mother too is going through this condition. And she is going down hill fast. Took awhile to realize what she had. I think this is one of the worst things possible that can happen to a family member.

05-26-2007, 09:10 PM	#13
pipeman45 User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 539 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I went through this with my father a few years back. He had a brain tumor and we were afraid that he may do harm to himself or others when not in his right mind. Some gun locks helped the whole family sleep better. He thought it was a good idea because we told him it was to keep the grandchildren safe when they visited. He never even ask where the keys were. __________________ Dave

05-27-2007, 07:19 PM	#14
nhdblfan User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Unfortunatly, I too am going through this,the Dementia not the guns, with my 87 year old mother and feel for all that posted with loved ones that have it as well.It is not a easy thing to have to go through and sometimes just knowing that others have been down this road helps.Chris you mentioned Phila,my mother is a nursing home there that has a special trained folks to help deal with this.If I can be of any help with the little I know of the local area help let me know.Its so good that you are able to spend so much time with him now,make the most of it. Dave