Can Anyone Read Iranian????

southlander0 · 01-08-2004, 04:37 PM

I know that Ron and Pete think these guys build Lugers in their garage with a refinishing and reproofing plant in full operation. However wandering their site I found this one which undoubtedly proves they have taken up the challenge against anyone who canÃ¢??t read Farsi. www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/persian/

I was watching an HK they had and it sold for $300 more than John D. predicted. They call it rare and I know I have never seen one other than in a book but at $6500 this starts to get a little pricey. Does anyone else have one of these and what did they pay for it?

Pete Ebbink · 01-08-2004, 05:51 PM

Hello James,

I think the Persian luger contract (for both P-08 and LP-08 pistols) is pretty well documented. They came with nice leather as well. Since the PIA site pricing seems to run high, I would guess $ 6500 may be a bit steep...IMHO.

I have always wondered how you deal with reporting the serial number to the BATF and State DOJ's...especially if one needs to know Farsi well enough to report/record the correct number...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

policeluger · 01-08-2004, 06:15 PM

Pete...my mother was Iranian, from her and grandmother we spoke/read Farsi at home growing up...I had too lean English in Kindergarden and 1-2 grade...if you can scan it, the numbers, I will read it for you.

Pete Ebbink · 01-08-2004, 06:44 PM

Hello Howard,

I am not in the market for one of the Mauser Persian contract lugers...but appreciate the offer.

Maybe you can look at the markings on the gun James brought up in his opening post, and give us a summary of what they mean...I think it would be fun for all to know what typical Persian contract lugers are inscribed...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

Ron Wood · 01-08-2004, 06:48 PM

southlanderO,

Just for the record, I have never accused or intimated that the owner of the site or his associates have ever altered or fabricated anything. I have only made observations and opinions on the Lugers brought before the forum, and left the assessment of the originality and validity of the individual weapons to the reader based on what was advertised and the observations of myself and others. I even expressed the opinion on one of the Lugers in question that it was very likely totally genuine. I do not reject the offerings of this firm out of hand; I try to weigh the evidence. I have indicated that the text of the advertisements were less than forthcoming on some details and could be very misleading if not read with some care and knowledge of the subject. I do not have the right to judge whether this lack of precision was naivetÃ?Â© or an outright attempt to deceive.

With respect to the Farsi emblazoned example currently being discussed, without being able to examine it in person, as presented it appears to be a genuine example. There were only approximately half as many 4-inch Persians produced as 8-inch artillery models, and the shorter barreled specimens seem to have less survivability, rendering them quite scarce and expensive. The only obvious thing I might point out about this Persian is that the grips are purported to be matching, but they do not show wear commensurate with the condition of the rest of the weapon. Perhaps somewhere along the line they have been Ã¢??freshened upÃ¢?Â a bit?

policeluger- The serial number is 1085. That much Farsi I can read (plus it is translated in the ad

)

Dwight Gruber · 01-08-2004, 07:49 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by southlander0:
...at $6500 this starts to get a little pricey. Does anyone else have one of these and what did they pay for it?<hr /></blockquote>I don't have one. If I remember correctly, last year someone mentioned a couple of these for sale in Europe for about half that amount.

--Dwight

policeluger · 01-08-2004, 07:54 PM

Pete...as I was going over the web page, the dealer captures all the Farsi in his detailing of the gun. All seems right too these old 1/2 Iranina eyes as far as his translations

Pete Ebbink · 01-08-2004, 10:11 PM

Hello Ron,

Any info. as to what branch(es)of service the LP-08 and the P-08 lugers were issued to during the Shah's reign...?

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />

ViggoG · 01-09-2004, 04:37 PM

Pete and policeluger,
Perhaps I can Fill in a small amount of information on the Iranian Lugers.
In the winter of 1945-46 I was In the Airforce stationed at Barksdale Field, La.
I had the questionable duty assignment of serving as Honor Guard for a Very Importand Party arriving at Barksdale Field, and every thing was highly secret.
The party was a middle eastern Prince, The Shah of Iran and his Party. Arriving in two planes, the first of which carried six of his personal body guard, and the second carried the Shah and Hid Wife.
Which we now understand that this secret hush hush attitude was because the Shah was being encouraged to separate himself from his central european connections.
As one of the Honor Guard, in addition to Honor Parade, it was my duty to escort his off duty personal body guards about the base and make them welcome.
These fellows were all the size of a six foot six Pro Football line backer, and were Oxford educated, speaking flawless "English".
Each carried one of these "Farsi" Gold inlayed Lugers. We exchanged weapons for a personal curiosity inspection. He seemed as impressed by the massive feel of my Colt 45 Auto as I was by the clean natural feel and point of his Luger.
I was told that if the Shah was pleased by a Visitor, that he was prone to present one of the gold inlayed lugers as a token gift.
The plain models were military Issue for his Officers and selected troops.
Thats all that I seem to remember after all these years.
If policeluger can fill in anything beyond this please be my guest.
ViggoG

Ron Wood · 01-09-2004, 05:20 PM

I am unaware of any gold inlayed Farsi Persian Lugers, but there is a truly magnificent inscribed presentation Luger from the Shah of Iran to Major General Vernon Evans on Bob Adams website Bob Adams Presentation Persian Luger There is quite a nice writeup in addition to photos of the Luger in the original box!

ViggoG · 01-09-2004, 06:08 PM

Ron,
Perhaps my memory fails me, after all 58 years is a long time to retain 30 or 40 seconds of memory.
For all these years I have believed the Farsi inscriptions to be gold filled, But I'm probably mistaken so I stand corrected.
If there are none, then I could not have held one in my hands, But Damn it seems like just yesterday as I think back.
Thanks for straightening out my error in memory.
ViggoG

Ron Wood · 01-09-2004, 06:52 PM

Viggo,
They very well may have been gold filled, since they were the Shah's personal guards. A gold wash in the inscriptions would be easy to do, and I have no doubt the Shah had the gold to do it. Just because I have never seen a gold inlayed Persian doesn't mean you couldn't have. Heck, I have only seen 2 Persians up close and personal (I got to hold the one Bob Adams has - great gun!).
Regards,
Ron

policeluger · 01-09-2004, 10:24 PM

Viggo, sorry as I can add nothing too that, I can tell you that I have looked at every Iranian Luger I could have over the past 40 or so years of Luger interest and can not recall see one gold inlaid...I can say that gold on one's person was the banking system of my Mother's side of the family.

Pete Ebbink · 01-20-2004, 12:41 AM

James,

Regarding a part of your original posting :

"..I was watching an HK they had and it sold for $300 more than John D. predicted. They call it rare and I know I have never seen one other than in a book but at $6500 this starts to get a little pricey.."

Randal Gibson's book on HK lugers is the definitive reading reference for the HK lugers. This book can be purchased new for $ 65 and used for less. If you have itnerests in knowing about HK's, I would suggest this book as a starting point.

HK luger are a bit less numerous than other lugers, but many are for sale year to year. I was able to pick one up last year (a early-mid S-code luger for $ 4K...).

And our John D. seems to have no trouble finding great HK's...I think he is a HK "magnet"... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

The folks at Simpsons LTD have some of the Gibson books listed for sale at :

http://www.simpsonltd.com/Merchant2/...tegory_Code=BK

It is the second book offering on this web page...

The folks at Simpson's currently have more than 10 HK lugers for sale as well in their Luger Room, HK section...

http://www.simpsonltd.com/LugerRoom/...off_lugers.htm

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

01-08-2004, 04:37 PM	#1
southlander0 New User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Can Anyone Read Iranian???? I know that Ron and Pete think these guys build Lugers in their garage with a refinishing and reproofing plant in full operation. However wandering their site I found this one which undoubtedly proves they have taken up the challenge against anyone who canÃ¢??t read Farsi. www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/persian/ I was watching an HK they had and it sold for $300 more than John D. predicted. They call it rare and I know I have never seen one other than in a book but at $6500 this starts to get a little pricey. Does anyone else have one of these and what did they pay for it?

01-08-2004, 06:48 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,020 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,173 Times in 1,701 Posts	southlanderO, Just for the record, I have never accused or intimated that the owner of the site or his associates have ever altered or fabricated anything. I have only made observations and opinions on the Lugers brought before the forum, and left the assessment of the originality and validity of the individual weapons to the reader based on what was advertised and the observations of myself and others. I even expressed the opinion on one of the Lugers in question that it was very likely totally genuine. I do not reject the offerings of this firm out of hand; I try to weigh the evidence. I have indicated that the text of the advertisements were less than forthcoming on some details and could be very misleading if not read with some care and knowledge of the subject. I do not have the right to judge whether this lack of precision was naivetÃ?Â© or an outright attempt to deceive. With respect to the Farsi emblazoned example currently being discussed, without being able to examine it in person, as presented it appears to be a genuine example. There were only approximately half as many 4-inch Persians produced as 8-inch artillery models, and the shorter barreled specimens seem to have less survivability, rendering them quite scarce and expensive. The only obvious thing I might point out about this Persian is that the grips are purported to be matching, but they do not show wear commensurate with the condition of the rest of the weapon. Perhaps somewhere along the line they have been Ã¢??freshened upÃ¢?Â a bit? policeluger- The serial number is 1085. That much Farsi I can read (plus it is translated in the ad ) __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-08-2004, 07:49 PM	#6
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,313 Times in 430 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by southlander0: <strong>...at $6500 this starts to get a little pricey. Does anyone else have one of these and what did they pay for it?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I don't have one. If I remember correctly, last year someone mentioned a couple of these for sale in Europe for about half that amount. --Dwight

01-09-2004, 05:20 PM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,020 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,173 Times in 1,701 Posts	I am unaware of any gold inlayed Farsi Persian Lugers, but there is a truly magnificent inscribed presentation Luger from the Shah of Iran to Major General Vernon Evans on Bob Adams website Bob Adams Presentation Persian Luger There is quite a nice writeup in addition to photos of the Luger in the original box! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-09-2004, 06:52 PM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,020 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,173 Times in 1,701 Posts	Viggo, They very well may have been gold filled, since they were the Shah's personal guards. A gold wash in the inscriptions would be easy to do, and I have no doubt the Shah had the gold to do it. Just because I have never seen a gold inlayed Persian doesn't mean you couldn't have. Heck, I have only seen 2 Persians up close and personal (I got to hold the one Bob Adams has - great gun!). Regards, Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-08-2004, 05:51 PM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello James, I think the Persian luger contract (for both P-08 and LP-08 pistols) is pretty well documented. They came with nice leather as well. Since the PIA site pricing seems to run high, I would guess $ 6500 may be a bit steep...IMHO. I have always wondered how you deal with reporting the serial number to the BATF and State DOJ's...especially if one needs to know Farsi well enough to report/record the correct number... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

01-08-2004, 06:15 PM	#3
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Pete...my mother was Iranian, from her and grandmother we spoke/read Farsi at home growing up...I had too lean English in Kindergarden and 1-2 grade...if you can scan it, the numbers, I will read it for you.

01-08-2004, 06:44 PM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Howard, I am not in the market for one of the Mauser Persian contract lugers...but appreciate the offer. Maybe you can look at the markings on the gun James brought up in his opening post, and give us a summary of what they mean...I think it would be fun for all to know what typical Persian contract lugers are inscribed... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

01-08-2004, 07:54 PM	#7
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Pete...as I was going over the web page, the dealer captures all the Farsi in his detailing of the gun. All seems right too these old 1/2 Iranina eyes as far as his translations

01-08-2004, 10:11 PM	#8
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Ron, Any info. as to what branch(es)of service the LP-08 and the P-08 lugers were issued to during the Shah's reign...? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />

01-09-2004, 04:37 PM	#9
ViggoG RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: South Side Virginia Posts: 534 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Pete and policeluger, Perhaps I can Fill in a small amount of information on the Iranian Lugers. In the winter of 1945-46 I was In the Airforce stationed at Barksdale Field, La. I had the questionable duty assignment of serving as Honor Guard for a Very Importand Party arriving at Barksdale Field, and every thing was highly secret. The party was a middle eastern Prince, The Shah of Iran and his Party. Arriving in two planes, the first of which carried six of his personal body guard, and the second carried the Shah and Hid Wife. Which we now understand that this secret hush hush attitude was because the Shah was being encouraged to separate himself from his central european connections. As one of the Honor Guard, in addition to Honor Parade, it was my duty to escort his off duty personal body guards about the base and make them welcome. These fellows were all the size of a six foot six Pro Football line backer, and were Oxford educated, speaking flawless "English". Each carried one of these "Farsi" Gold inlayed Lugers. We exchanged weapons for a personal curiosity inspection. He seemed as impressed by the massive feel of my Colt 45 Auto as I was by the clean natural feel and point of his Luger. I was told that if the Shah was pleased by a Visitor, that he was prone to present one of the gold inlayed lugers as a token gift. The plain models were military Issue for his Officers and selected troops. Thats all that I seem to remember after all these years. If policeluger can fill in anything beyond this please be my guest. ViggoG

01-09-2004, 06:08 PM	#11
ViggoG RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: South Side Virginia Posts: 534 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Ron, Perhaps my memory fails me, after all 58 years is a long time to retain 30 or 40 seconds of memory. For all these years I have believed the Farsi inscriptions to be gold filled, But I'm probably mistaken so I stand corrected. If there are none, then I could not have held one in my hands, But Damn it seems like just yesterday as I think back. Thanks for straightening out my error in memory. ViggoG

01-09-2004, 10:24 PM	#13
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Viggo, sorry as I can add nothing too that, I can tell you that I have looked at every Iranian Luger I could have over the past 40 or so years of Luger interest and can not recall see one gold inlaid...I can say that gold on one's person was the banking system of my Mother's side of the family.

01-20-2004, 12:41 AM	#14
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	James, Regarding a part of your original posting : "..I was watching an HK they had and it sold for $300 more than John D. predicted. They call it rare and I know I have never seen one other than in a book but at $6500 this starts to get a little pricey.." Randal Gibson's book on HK lugers is the definitive reading reference for the HK lugers. This book can be purchased new for $ 65 and used for less. If you have itnerests in knowing about HK's, I would suggest this book as a starting point. HK luger are a bit less numerous than other lugers, but many are for sale year to year. I was able to pick one up last year (a early-mid S-code luger for $ 4K...). And our John D. seems to have no trouble finding great HK's...I think he is a HK "magnet"... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> The folks at Simpsons LTD have some of the Gibson books listed for sale at : http://www.simpsonltd.com/Merchant2/...tegory_Code=BK It is the second book offering on this web page... The folks at Simpson's currently have more than 10 HK lugers for sale as well in their Luger Room, HK section... http://www.simpsonltd.com/LugerRoom/...off_lugers.htm Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />