Year and Model?

Hairy · 02-22-2003, 11:25 AM

Looking at what was told to me to be a 1900 AE Luger, .30. Serial is 846x. Has dished toggle but no lock. Suggestions solicited re: price range that is fair to both seller and me.

wterrell · 02-22-2003, 11:27 AM

$400.

Whoa! Let me back up a bit. Please clarify: the dished toggles were manufactured without the provision of a lock; or the lock is not installed in the toggle which was manufactured for the lock.

Pete Ebbink · 02-22-2003, 09:59 PM

How can there be a valuation of $ 400.00 when the gun's condition and other details were not even provided...???

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

wterrell · 02-22-2003, 10:05 PM

It's a concert pianist with 9 fingers, Pete.
Let me add, that everyone just sat and stared at this fellers post, so I thought I would give him a figure, something for consideration.

Something else for consideration: Condition matters with collector pistols. When a pistol has been stripped, I do not know that it would fall into that class.

Edward Tinker · 02-22-2003, 10:41 PM

Hairy, if you could provide more information?

When you say <blockquote>quote:<hr />Has dished toggle but no lock<hr /></blockquote>Can you tell us more of what you mean?

As several have said, a "shooter" (one that has been modified, changed parts etc) go in price from $400 - $600, depending on type, what is wrong, modified etc., while one that is in fair shape, but original, might be several hundred dollars more.

Ed

Hairy · 02-23-2003, 07:57 AM

Okay, this is the description: American Eagle, Germany marked, 7.65 Cal, thin tapered barrel, grip safety, hold-open, On right side covering ejector and directly below toggle is a Ã¢??raised lipÃ¢?Â (havenÃ¢??t seen that on my other Lugers). Toggle is dished and has DMW in scroll lettering. No stock lug but has a lanyard holder. All parts match with last 2 numbers of serial number, including grips. Looks like old re-blue, thinning on barrel and worn on sideplate. Light pitting on frame above grip.

wterrell · 02-23-2003, 11:37 AM

You still haven't answered the question of whether the pistol was manufactured with a lock or not.
Post a pic.

Hairy · 02-23-2003, 12:12 PM

I can't tell if it was manufactured with a lock or not; it does have a "lip" directly under the toggle and covers part of the ejector.

Correction: Just checked a diagram of the frame and it appears that the lip is a part of a toggle lock. The lock itself is missing.

Ron Wood · 02-23-2003, 12:23 PM

Let me see if I can clear this up. The lip is the projection on the frame that catches the lock on the toggle. You noted that it has dished toggles. In the right toggle knob there should be a machined slot for the toggle lock assembly. The lock consists of three pieces, the locking latch, a spring and the pin that secures the latch to the toggle knob. Since the Luger in question has the frame catch, I suspect that the lock assembly has been lost from the toggle. These are replaceable and I believe Lugerdoc (Tom Heller) stated he has some.

wterrell · 02-23-2003, 12:29 PM

Here is the toggle with a lock installed. The toggle will be recessed machined to accept this lock. Without the toggle lock installed, the recess will be quite evident.

Hairy · 02-23-2003, 04:13 PM

Thanks, Wes. Apparently the toggle has been replaced.

wterrell · 02-23-2003, 06:34 PM

Next question:
Which of these two pics best resembles your radius near the takedown lever?

Hairy · 02-23-2003, 09:57 PM

The photo on the right most resembles the one I am looking at.

wterrell · 02-23-2003, 10:25 PM

post pics

Hairy · 02-24-2003, 07:24 AM

Wes, don't have a camera and I only have the gun on approval until tomorrow night when I have to buy or return it. Based on info already provided, do you have ballpark year of mfg? Would also appreciate ballpark purchase price. Thanks.

Dwight Gruber · 02-24-2003, 10:06 AM

Hairy,

Lets see what can be made from all the foregoing.

1900 American Eagle, serial number indicating a fairly early piece. (One source has 12,000 manufactured.) Reblued, some pitting. Toggle latch missing from toggle. All matching--except you state that "apparently toggle has been replaced", possibly a misunderstanding on our part or yours--you are the only one in position to make the final determination on that. A missing toggle latch reduces a Luger's value some, but not seriously, depending on the condition of the rest of the piece; a replaced toggle seriously--perhaps fatally--devalues the gun.

As described, the most significant determiner of value is the reblue. This reduces the gun's value to a collector to insignificance. In the best of condition otherwise, one should not pay more than $800 for such a piece. Problems such as pitting or missing parts reduce a fair value towards $700; a serious parts mismatch such as a replaced toggle plummets this value towards $600 or less.

You don't say whether you are looking for a Luger having collector value, or merely a representitive item. This should play some part in your decision.

All the foregoing is strictly my opinion.

Good luck to you here, let us all know how it all works out.

--Dwight

Hairy · 02-24-2003, 02:09 PM

Thanks for the info Dwight. My intent of obtaining the Luger was to have a "spread" from 1900 to the latest one (I have an AE Luger, 1978) and samples in between. Was concerned seller wanted too much ($925) and was just trying to verify a fair price. Appears that a fair price to both of us is around $650-675.

Thanks again.

02-22-2003, 11:25 AM	#1
Hairy User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Hudson, FL Posts: 120 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Year and Model? Looking at what was told to me to be a 1900 AE Luger, .30. Serial is 846x. Has dished toggle but no lock. Suggestions solicited re: price range that is fair to both seller and me.

02-22-2003, 11:27 AM	#2
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	$400. Whoa! Let me back up a bit. Please clarify: the dished toggles were manufactured without the provision of a lock; or the lock is not installed in the toggle which was manufactured for the lock. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

02-22-2003, 10:05 PM	#4
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	It's a concert pianist with 9 fingers, Pete. Let me add, that everyone just sat and stared at this fellers post, so I thought I would give him a figure, something for consideration. Something else for consideration: Condition matters with collector pistols. When a pistol has been stripped, I do not know that it would fall into that class. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

02-22-2003, 10:41 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	Hairy, if you could provide more information? When you say </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Has dished toggle but no lock</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Can you tell us more of what you mean? As several have said, a "shooter" (one that has been modified, changed parts etc) go in price from $400 - $600, depending on type, what is wrong, modified etc., while one that is in fair shape, but original, might be several hundred dollars more. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-23-2003, 11:37 AM	#7
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	You still haven't answered the question of whether the pistol was manufactured with a lock or not. Post a pic. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

02-22-2003, 09:59 PM	#3
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	How can there be a valuation of $ 400.00 when the gun's condition and other details were not even provided...??? Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

02-23-2003, 07:57 AM	#6
Hairy User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Hudson, FL Posts: 120 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Okay, this is the description: American Eagle, Germany marked, 7.65 Cal, thin tapered barrel, grip safety, hold-open, On right side covering ejector and directly below toggle is a Ã¢??raised lipÃ¢?Â (havenÃ¢??t seen that on my other Lugers). Toggle is dished and has DMW in scroll lettering. No stock lug but has a lanyard holder. All parts match with last 2 numbers of serial number, including grips. Looks like old re-blue, thinning on barrel and worn on sideplate. Light pitting on frame above grip.

02-23-2003, 12:12 PM	#8
Hairy User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Hudson, FL Posts: 120 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I can't tell if it was manufactured with a lock or not; it does have a "lip" directly under the toggle and covers part of the ejector. Correction: Just checked a diagram of the frame and it appears that the lip is a part of a toggle lock. The lock itself is missing.

02-23-2003, 12:23 PM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,010 Thanks: 1,088 Thanked 5,149 Times in 1,694 Posts	Let me see if I can clear this up. The lip is the projection on the frame that catches the lock on the toggle. You noted that it has dished toggles. In the right toggle knob there should be a machined slot for the toggle lock assembly. The lock consists of three pieces, the locking latch, a spring and the pin that secures the latch to the toggle knob. Since the Luger in question has the frame catch, I suspect that the lock assembly has been lost from the toggle. These are replaceable and I believe Lugerdoc (Tom Heller) stated he has some. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

02-23-2003, 12:29 PM	#10
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Here is the toggle with a lock installed. The toggle will be recessed machined to accept this lock. Without the toggle lock installed, the recess will be quite evident. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

02-23-2003, 04:13 PM	#11
Hairy User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Hudson, FL Posts: 120 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks, Wes. Apparently the toggle has been replaced.

02-23-2003, 06:34 PM	#12
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Next question: Which of these two pics best resembles your radius near the takedown lever? __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

02-23-2003, 09:57 PM	#13
Hairy User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Hudson, FL Posts: 120 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The photo on the right most resembles the one I am looking at.

02-23-2003, 10:25 PM	#14
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	post pics __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

02-24-2003, 07:24 AM	#15
Hairy User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Hudson, FL Posts: 120 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wes, don't have a camera and I only have the gun on approval until tomorrow night when I have to buy or return it. Based on info already provided, do you have ballpark year of mfg? Would also appreciate ballpark purchase price. Thanks.

02-24-2003, 10:06 AM	#16
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,894 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,288 Times in 426 Posts	Hairy, Lets see what can be made from all the foregoing. 1900 American Eagle, serial number indicating a fairly early piece. (One source has 12,000 manufactured.) Reblued, some pitting. Toggle latch missing from toggle. All matching--except you state that "apparently toggle has been replaced", possibly a misunderstanding on our part or yours--you are the only one in position to make the final determination on that. A missing toggle latch reduces a Luger's value some, but not seriously, depending on the condition of the rest of the piece; a replaced toggle seriously--perhaps fatally--devalues the gun. As described, the most significant determiner of value is the reblue. This reduces the gun's value to a collector to insignificance. In the best of condition otherwise, one should not pay more than $800 for such a piece. Problems such as pitting or missing parts reduce a fair value towards $700; a serious parts mismatch such as a replaced toggle plummets this value towards $600 or less. You don't say whether you are looking for a Luger having collector value, or merely a representitive item. This should play some part in your decision. All the foregoing is strictly my opinion. Good luck to you here, let us all know how it all works out. --Dwight

02-24-2003, 02:09 PM	#17
Hairy User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Hudson, FL Posts: 120 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the info Dwight. My intent of obtaining the Luger was to have a "spread" from 1900 to the latest one (I have an AE Luger, 1978) and samples in between. Was concerned seller wanted too much ($925) and was just trying to verify a fair price. Appears that a fair price to both of us is around $650-675. Thanks again.