First Luger Purchase

Jerry G. · 08-11-2002, 03:22 PM

Am glad to have found Lugerforum. I have developed an interest in Lugers after all the ww2 media recently, as have many others. I am educating myself on the topic would welcome comment. I want start my collection with a common model ww2 military luger which has matching parts, good grip and retains 90% original finish. I have two questions 1) what sort of price can I expect to pay for something like this, any recomendations on models? 2) Would it be wrong to shoot something like this once a month, i.e. would it lose value, should I buy two a collector and a shooter?

tracyp · 08-11-2002, 06:17 PM

I would say a military Luger from WWII in 90% or better condition will cost you $800 and up. If the condition were around 90% then it would probably be okay to shoot it once or twice, but if your going to shoot very often ( like once a month ) then I'd buy a shooter. A good shooter should be around $500 to $600.

That's my opinion.

Dwight Gruber · 08-11-2002, 06:38 PM

Jerry, allow me to jump in and say welcome to the party <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Your choice of a WWII gun as a first Luger is a good one, you should have no problem finding one which will fit your desire. Look for a gun with a toggle marked 42, S/42, or byf. You will find them with a number of chamber designations, don't worry about those for now. You should expect to pay on the order of $1,000 for a gun in the condition you describe, if you look very hard and have patience you might be able to find one as low as $800. If you are looking for a complete holster rig and a matching magazine expect to pay a couple hundred dollars more.

Once you take a Luger to the range you may find that you want to shoot it more than once a month. Shooting the Luger you propose to buy certainly takes the chance of breaking a small numbered part or otherwise reducing its value. There is no such thing as a "shooter Luger" or a "collector Luger", there are only Lugers--some have a value which may be reduced by shooting, some shooting cannot devalue. Buying a mismatched or reworked Luger to shoot will definitely protect your investment.

--Dwight

Jerry G. · 08-12-2002, 11:44 PM

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my questions. Here is where I have arrived on the first lugar purchase. First, I will look for a ww2 gun with mixed parts in good condition (about 90% of original finish) as a "shooter". Seems like a budget of $600-$700 should do it. This way I can enjoy shooting a vintage gun and if a part breaks it can be replaced without losing the value of the lugar.

Then I will look for an interesting non-shooter that is 90%+ with matched parts. Here I am intrigued by the "black widow". I have also seen pictures of several other ww2 types that are of interest.

Here are 2 follow-up questions if you have time.

1.What do the designations "42, S/42, or byf" mean? And is the Lugar an "accurate" gun?

2.Are they accurate as far as handguns go? I have conflicting information about the accuracy of Lugars. I had initially thought the gun to be very accurate and that it was only replaced because of cost and time to produce (I suppose reliability was a factor also).

Herb · 08-13-2002, 12:03 AM

Jerry, the codes you mention are the German wartime codes used to hide the manufactures designation so that our, allies, wouldn't try to bomb the factories of known producers. You are willing to pay more than I for a 'shooter' than I am, my limit is around $600 for one in really great condition. Be careful with that 'Black Widow' I have seen many, many ads for black widow grips lately that make me wonder where the Lugers went that had them on them. In my opinion the Luger is a very accurate pistol. The sights were originally made to be on target at 50 meters, most people shoot at 25 meter targets and will get hits that are too high, giving them the impression that it is not accurate, not so, just too close. Remember that these are weapons produced for combat, not everyday plinking, so they will not be as accurate as a modern pistol with micro-grooved rifleing. You are correct, the Lugar was replaced due to the complexity of manufacturing and the cost involved verses the P38. I have found them to be very accurate at extreme ranges, 200 yards or more.

Edward Tinker · 08-13-2002, 12:07 AM

Hello Jerry, to answer your questions:

1. What do the designations "42, S/42, or byf" mean?

Answer, during the prewar and then WW2 years, the German gov't decided they would hide the manufacturerÃ¢??s names, so designations of letters or numbers were used. 42, S/42 and byf are all codes for Mauser.

And is the Lugar an "accurate" gun?

Answer, the Luger is much more accurate than others, but not as accurate as some. A riddle because it is a military gun and was made to function in all weather. Still the Luger can be finicky and not always feed well, but I think my LugerÃ¢??s are very accurate.

And although there sometimes is a bit of controversy on Georg Lugers' name being spelled a certain way, most Americans and Europeans have decided it is with an E, as in Luger [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

AGE · 08-13-2002, 01:31 AM

Jerry,

The Luger seems to be quite accurate if the barrel isn't too bad. However, it is harder than many more modern guns to shoot accurately. This is because of the tiny fixed sights and the heavy, gritty trigger.

The Luger isn't the best gun to use to learn to shoot a pistol. I would suggest a .22 cal. target gun (like a Ruger MK I or II) for learning.

However, the Luger is neeeeeat and has a lot of history associated with it. I also find Colt SAAs and 1911s to be real neat guns.

Edward Tinker · 08-13-2002, 01:43 AM

Agreed Al, I like those other two also (just like the Luger the best) [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Pete Ebbink · 08-13-2002, 02:30 AM

Hello Jerry,

My first luger purchase was a NIB luger made in the 1970's by Mauser. They seem to range in the $ 500 to $ 950 price range depending on condition and some appear on the various gun sites from time to time.

I wanted a relatively "new" luger that I can shoot as much as I want and not worry about "old" parts breaking.

I now have over 14 lugers in my small collection. Whenever I am tempted to shoot one of my "historical" lugers, I just grab this 1970's shooter luger and that gets rid of the "urge"...

Hope you find your first luger soon. I think it's a lot like a first girlfriend.... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

hermit · 08-13-2002, 09:56 AM

Hello again! I read in an earlier post that he finds his luger accurate out to 200 yards. Is this true? I would think that there would be a large amount of energy dissipated at that range--therefore a substantial drop. I doubt it would be possible to scope the luger due to it's top eject? I have always wanted to hunt deer with a pistol. My blind allows me to get deer as close as 30 yards. I guess a 9mm would do the trick at that range. I would love to try a 44 mag with a scope. Unfortunately where I live, if caught I would be wearing iron bracelets. Can someone state the ballistics to the 9mm? Thanks and a great forum.

AGE · 08-13-2002, 11:22 AM

Hermit,

My Luger shoots maybe 2-3" high at 25 yards using a 6 o'clock hold on a 25 yard bullseye target. Believe it or not, it is about dead on at 100 yards and I can shoot cartridge boxes (and even hit some of them) at 100 yards without sight correction.

Based on my experience shooting .22 high speed ammo at 200 yards, I suspect the 9 mm wouldn't be more than a foot or two low at 200 yards with these sights.

Roadkill · 08-13-2002, 04:01 PM

If I were shooting a pistol at something further out than 25yds I'd have to request an artillery forward observer to spot where the rounds were hitting and call back adjustments. If I can see the sights I can't see distance, if I look at distance I have no idea what the sight alignment is. And I wear progressive bifocals. This getting old sure ain't no deal.

RK

John Sabato · 08-13-2002, 04:52 PM

RK,

I'll second that! I am almost as old as Tom A!

saxman · 08-13-2002, 06:40 PM

Hermit; The 9mm Luger cartridge is not acceptable for game over 50 lbs., particularly not deer.
Jerry; You may want to widen your search to include earlier Lugers like the 1920s. Many of us actually prefer these earlier ones, and they are all the same, anyway, except some of the pre-war pistols are .30 cal. (7.62 Luger) rather than 9mm. You can pick up a nice 1920 in 9mm for $450-$550. Browse this site to see some examples.

AGE · 08-13-2002, 06:48 PM

Roadkill,

About 10 years ago (I'm nearly 68 now) I almost gave up pistol shooting. Then I read an article about an optical guy (I don't remember if an optometrist or opthamalogist or what) named Leyman (not sure about spelling anymore) somewhere in Texas who specialized in helping shooters. I called him, sent my prescription, etc. and got back a great set of progressive shooting glasses. They helped a big bunch.

I eventually needed another prescription so I had new lenses made locally. They work pretty well too. Maybe it's the nature of my eyesight, but with these glasses I can focus on the front sight and still see the target pretty well (not in perfect focus, but not too bad). Remember to focus on the sights--let the target be fuzzy and you should be able to shoot a pistol decently.

Jerry G. · 08-15-2002, 12:27 AM

Thanks again for the responses. I really appreciate the information.

After consideration my objective is still a ww2 mauser "shooter" (42, S/42 and byf). And I will look to spend no more than $600 for a good example. If I were to run into a "nice" 1920 in 9mm for $450-$550, I would be interested and would probably buy. Although, if going back in time I might think of a ww1 vintage gun. Same difference?

It is clear that the Luger is an accurate weapon. A person just has to become familiar with the characteristics of Lugers. Seems that bore condition may be an issue and will of course be important in accuracy. Any tips for checking this? Or is it really an issue?

Luckily my vision is still great so no forward observers and no spectacles for me! [img]smile.gif[/img]

AGE · 08-15-2002, 02:10 AM

Jerry,

Your goal for a Luger is attainable. I bought my "shooter" Luger in April for $500 even, bought an extra magazine, and had Hugh fix up a set of aftermarket grips for me. Total cost still under $600. It's a 1936 reblued Mauser--nice job, good color and square edges, but salt blued with no strawed parts so obviously a shooter.

My Luger is more accurate than even I realized. See my post under Shooting and Reloading, Overpressure Russian Ammo for a target I shot today. 1.5 inch group right out of it's case in spite of tiny sights and a gritty trigger. You just have to sight in the gun (not easy with fixed sights), focus on the sights and squeeeeeze the trigger.

TBeardmore · 08-15-2002, 06:05 PM

There are several good P08's being auctioned at Gunbroker.com right now. Some are waaaaay beyond what I can afford, but many are very nicely priced. Here's a 1937 S/42 with all numbers matching (except magazine).

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...p?Item=4914650

At this writing, the auction is scheduled to end in just under 20 hours. The current high bid is $477.50.

Good luck!
Tom

Hugh · 08-16-2002, 02:32 AM

<img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" /> I don't want to be a killjoy, but the description says "all matching but TOGGLE and magazine" and "possibly a reblue" The present bid @ $500 has not met the reserve. [img]frown.gif[/img]

Jerry G. · 08-17-2002, 01:55 PM

The Luger 1937 S/42 at Gunbroker.com did not sell at auction. The high bid of $500 did not meet the reserve. It has now been relisted. And there is an instant buy option for $505. Given that it is a reblue with mixed parts this might be an OK price for a shooter. Yes/no?

08-11-2002, 03:22 PM	#1
Jerry G. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	First Luger Purchase Am glad to have found Lugerforum. I have developed an interest in Lugers after all the ww2 media recently, as have many others. I am educating myself on the topic would welcome comment. I want start my collection with a common model ww2 military luger which has matching parts, good grip and retains 90% original finish. I have two questions 1) what sort of price can I expect to pay for something like this, any recomendations on models? 2) Would it be wrong to shoot something like this once a month, i.e. would it lose value, should I buy two a collector and a shooter?

08-13-2002, 12:03 AM	#5
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Jerry, the codes you mention are the German wartime codes used to hide the manufactures designation so that our, allies, wouldn't try to bomb the factories of known producers. You are willing to pay more than I for a 'shooter' than I am, my limit is around $600 for one in really great condition. Be careful with that 'Black Widow' I have seen many, many ads for black widow grips lately that make me wonder where the Lugers went that had them on them. In my opinion the Luger is a very accurate pistol. The sights were originally made to be on target at 50 meters, most people shoot at 25 meter targets and will get hits that are too high, giving them the impression that it is not accurate, not so, just too close. Remember that these are weapons produced for combat, not everyday plinking, so they will not be as accurate as a modern pistol with micro-grooved rifleing. You are correct, the Lugar was replaced due to the complexity of manufacturing and the cost involved verses the P38. I have found them to be very accurate at extreme ranges, 200 yards or more. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

08-13-2002, 12:07 AM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,930 Thanks: 2,030 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	Hello Jerry, to answer your questions: 1. What do the designations "42, S/42, or byf" mean? Answer, during the prewar and then WW2 years, the German gov't decided they would hide the manufacturerÃ¢??s names, so designations of letters or numbers were used. 42, S/42 and byf are all codes for Mauser. And is the Lugar an "accurate" gun? Answer, the Luger is much more accurate than others, but not as accurate as some. A riddle because it is a military gun and was made to function in all weather. Still the Luger can be finicky and not always feed well, but I think my LugerÃ¢??s are very accurate. And although there sometimes is a bit of controversy on Georg Lugers' name being spelled a certain way, most Americans and Europeans have decided it is with an E, as in Luger [img]biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-13-2002, 01:31 AM	#7
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Jerry, The Luger seems to be quite accurate if the barrel isn't too bad. However, it is harder than many more modern guns to shoot accurately. This is because of the tiny fixed sights and the heavy, gritty trigger. The Luger isn't the best gun to use to learn to shoot a pistol. I would suggest a .22 cal. target gun (like a Ruger MK I or II) for learning. However, the Luger is neeeeeat and has a lot of history associated with it. I also find Colt SAAs and 1911s to be real neat guns. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

08-13-2002, 01:43 AM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,930 Thanks: 2,030 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	Agreed Al, I like those other two also (just like the Luger the best) [img]biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-11-2002, 06:17 PM	#2
tracyp User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 391 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I would say a military Luger from WWII in 90% or better condition will cost you $800 and up. If the condition were around 90% then it would probably be okay to shoot it once or twice, but if your going to shoot very often ( like once a month ) then I'd buy a shooter. A good shooter should be around $500 to $600. That's my opinion.

08-11-2002, 06:38 PM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,313 Times in 430 Posts	Jerry, allow me to jump in and say welcome to the party <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> Your choice of a WWII gun as a first Luger is a good one, you should have no problem finding one which will fit your desire. Look for a gun with a toggle marked 42, S/42, or byf. You will find them with a number of chamber designations, don't worry about those for now. You should expect to pay on the order of $1,000 for a gun in the condition you describe, if you look very hard and have patience you might be able to find one as low as $800. If you are looking for a complete holster rig and a matching magazine expect to pay a couple hundred dollars more. Once you take a Luger to the range you may find that you want to shoot it more than once a month. Shooting the Luger you propose to buy certainly takes the chance of breaking a small numbered part or otherwise reducing its value. There is no such thing as a "shooter Luger" or a "collector Luger", there are only Lugers--some have a value which may be reduced by shooting, some shooting cannot devalue. Buying a mismatched or reworked Luger to shoot will definitely protect your investment. --Dwight

08-12-2002, 11:44 PM	#4
Jerry G. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for taking the time to reply to my questions. Here is where I have arrived on the first lugar purchase. First, I will look for a ww2 gun with mixed parts in good condition (about 90% of original finish) as a "shooter". Seems like a budget of $600-$700 should do it. This way I can enjoy shooting a vintage gun and if a part breaks it can be replaced without losing the value of the lugar. Then I will look for an interesting non-shooter that is 90%+ with matched parts. Here I am intrigued by the "black widow". I have also seen pictures of several other ww2 types that are of interest. Here are 2 follow-up questions if you have time. 1.What do the designations "42, S/42, or byf" mean? And is the Lugar an "accurate" gun? 2.Are they accurate as far as handguns go? I have conflicting information about the accuracy of Lugars. I had initially thought the gun to be very accurate and that it was only replaced because of cost and time to produce (I suppose reliability was a factor also).

08-13-2002, 02:30 AM	#9
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Jerry, My first luger purchase was a NIB luger made in the 1970's by Mauser. They seem to range in the $ 500 to $ 950 price range depending on condition and some appear on the various gun sites from time to time. I wanted a relatively "new" luger that I can shoot as much as I want and not worry about "old" parts breaking. I now have over 14 lugers in my small collection. Whenever I am tempted to shoot one of my "historical" lugers, I just grab this 1970's shooter luger and that gets rid of the "urge"... Hope you find your first luger soon. I think it's a lot like a first girlfriend.... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

08-13-2002, 09:56 AM	#10
hermit User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: canada Posts: 51 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello again! I read in an earlier post that he finds his luger accurate out to 200 yards. Is this true? I would think that there would be a large amount of energy dissipated at that range--therefore a substantial drop. I doubt it would be possible to scope the luger due to it's top eject? I have always wanted to hunt deer with a pistol. My blind allows me to get deer as close as 30 yards. I guess a 9mm would do the trick at that range. I would love to try a 44 mag with a scope. Unfortunately where I live, if caught I would be wearing iron bracelets. Can someone state the ballistics to the 9mm? Thanks and a great forum.

08-13-2002, 11:22 AM	#11
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hermit, My Luger shoots maybe 2-3" high at 25 yards using a 6 o'clock hold on a 25 yard bullseye target. Believe it or not, it is about dead on at 100 yards and I can shoot cartridge boxes (and even hit some of them) at 100 yards without sight correction. Based on my experience shooting .22 high speed ammo at 200 yards, I suspect the 9 mm wouldn't be more than a foot or two low at 200 yards with these sights. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

08-13-2002, 04:01 PM	#12
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	If I were shooting a pistol at something further out than 25yds I'd have to request an artillery forward observer to spot where the rounds were hitting and call back adjustments. If I can see the sights I can't see distance, if I look at distance I have no idea what the sight alignment is. And I wear progressive bifocals. This getting old sure ain't no deal. RK

08-13-2002, 04:52 PM	#13
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	RK, I'll second that! I am almost as old as Tom A! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-13-2002, 06:40 PM	#14
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hermit; The 9mm Luger cartridge is not acceptable for game over 50 lbs., particularly not deer. Jerry; You may want to widen your search to include earlier Lugers like the 1920s. Many of us actually prefer these earlier ones, and they are all the same, anyway, except some of the pre-war pistols are .30 cal. (7.62 Luger) rather than 9mm. You can pick up a nice 1920 in 9mm for $450-$550. Browse this site to see some examples. __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

08-13-2002, 06:48 PM	#15
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Roadkill, About 10 years ago (I'm nearly 68 now) I almost gave up pistol shooting. Then I read an article about an optical guy (I don't remember if an optometrist or opthamalogist or what) named Leyman (not sure about spelling anymore) somewhere in Texas who specialized in helping shooters. I called him, sent my prescription, etc. and got back a great set of progressive shooting glasses. They helped a big bunch. I eventually needed another prescription so I had new lenses made locally. They work pretty well too. Maybe it's the nature of my eyesight, but with these glasses I can focus on the front sight and still see the target pretty well (not in perfect focus, but not too bad). Remember to focus on the sights--let the target be fuzzy and you should be able to shoot a pistol decently. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

08-15-2002, 12:27 AM	#16
Jerry G. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks again for the responses. I really appreciate the information. After consideration my objective is still a ww2 mauser "shooter" (42, S/42 and byf). And I will look to spend no more than $600 for a good example. If I were to run into a "nice" 1920 in 9mm for $450-$550, I would be interested and would probably buy. Although, if going back in time I might think of a ww1 vintage gun. Same difference? It is clear that the Luger is an accurate weapon. A person just has to become familiar with the characteristics of Lugers. Seems that bore condition may be an issue and will of course be important in accuracy. Any tips for checking this? Or is it really an issue? Luckily my vision is still great so no forward observers and no spectacles for me! [img]smile.gif[/img]

08-15-2002, 02:10 AM	#17
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Jerry, Your goal for a Luger is attainable. I bought my "shooter" Luger in April for $500 even, bought an extra magazine, and had Hugh fix up a set of aftermarket grips for me. Total cost still under $600. It's a 1936 reblued Mauser--nice job, good color and square edges, but salt blued with no strawed parts so obviously a shooter. My Luger is more accurate than even I realized. See my post under Shooting and Reloading, Overpressure Russian Ammo for a target I shot today. 1.5 inch group right out of it's case in spite of tiny sights and a gritty trigger. You just have to sight in the gun (not easy with fixed sights), focus on the sights and squeeeeeze the trigger. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

08-15-2002, 06:05 PM	#18
TBeardmore User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	There are several good P08's being auctioned at Gunbroker.com right now. Some are waaaaay beyond what I can afford, but many are very nicely priced. Here's a 1937 S/42 with all numbers matching (except magazine). http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...p?Item=4914650 At this writing, the auction is scheduled to end in just under 20 hours. The current high bid is $477.50. Good luck! Tom

08-16-2002, 02:32 AM	#19
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	<img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" /> I don't want to be a killjoy, but the description says "all matching but TOGGLE and magazine" and "possibly a reblue" The present bid @ $500 has not met the reserve. [img]frown.gif[/img] __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

08-17-2002, 01:55 PM	#20
Jerry G. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The Luger 1937 S/42 at Gunbroker.com did not sell at auction. The high bid of $500 did not meet the reserve. It has now been relisted. And there is an instant buy option for $505. Given that it is a reblue with mixed parts this might be an OK price for a shooter. Yes/no?