Versaiiles red 9 help

Dave Sanders · 09-18-2013, 11:53 PM

I have a guy who wants to sell this broomhandle for $2000. It is all matching and really in nice shape, perhaps 98%. It has all the parts holster, leather straps, etc, and a single holster too. He said it was a red 9 made in 1919 for the military. The sn dates it to 1913. It is 9mm. I am really confused as to what the heck this really is. Can you broomhandle people shed some light and if it is a good price from what you can see from the pictures? It is the type I have been looking for. In hand, it is a beauty.Thanks.

Dave

Dave Sanders · 09-18-2013, 11:57 PM

last bunch

alvin · 09-19-2013, 07:32 AM

Some members knew this thing much better than me, but they are offline today. ....

#120260 R9 was most likely made in 1918. On paper, there was a summary table on sales numbers of R9 from 1916 - 1921. But please note, that's sales number, not year of make. Those are made from 1916 - 1918.

Year Sales Accumulate Sales
1916 24463 (24463)
1917 30000 (54463)
1918 64952 (119415)
1919 0
1920 14301 (133716)
1921 6933 (140649)

The short barrel R9 was reworked on barrel and sight. In the process, it must be reblued. But say, it's reblued by Weimar government contractor, acceptable. On finish, the police stamp on grip should show strong halo. If that stamp has no halo, it must be reblued again after German.

The banner stock was from a Mauser 1930. The body shows those straps, so sanded and re-oiled. But it does look like a genuine Mauser stock. The frog harness and the rod,,,, I cannot see clearly..... the rod looks like a replica. The leather holster does not look like a genuine one (but I have never had a police holster, other members definitely know more accurately on leather status).

For $2000, the main focus is on that gun, stock, and frog harness. Say, stock and harness could go $800 - $1000 separately on ebay. Then the gun counts $1000 - $1200, plus other items. So the deal is good. For unknown reason, people love those R9.

Patronen · 09-19-2013, 08:10 AM

Nice R9 with history, congratulations on it if you decide to buy it. Very interesting reading in History Writ in Steel by Don Maus, page 168 chapter 11 with regards to the grip strap marking. It is a police marking from the Precinct Police of Konigsberg.
In the table on that page there is 1917 Erfurt P08 listed that has the exact same mark listed as cancelled.

alvin · 09-19-2013, 08:23 AM

2nd thought on the police holster. It's in superb shape.... assume this holster is valid, this one worth quite amount of $$. Not many of those are available, police holsters are rare.

Schupo · 09-19-2013, 10:19 AM

Dave,

As the others have said, this is a proper post-WWI German Police variation pistol that has been shortened and had the adjustable rear sight removed by the Polizei. All quite proper for this variation and in very nice complete condition. The second holster is a legitimate police variation as well. A nice rig at a very good price. I would buy it in a minute.

Ron Smith · 09-19-2013, 10:45 AM

A very nice and not so commonly found rig. I wouldn't hesitate on buying it. IMO, it's worth the asking price +...

Jack Lawman · 09-19-2013, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schupo

Dave,

As the others have said, this is a proper post-WWI German Police variation pistol that has been shortened and had the adjustable rear sight removed by the Polizei. All quite proper for this variation and in very nice complete condition. The second holster is a legitimate police variation as well. A nice rig at a very good price. I would buy it in a minute.

If this is what you've been looking for, you will regret not buying it.

It should have the government acceptance stamp on the right side barrel flat (It's a small fraktur style letter).

Red Nines had their own serial range, maybe therein lies the confusion?

More info:
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...Mauser-Pistols

Dave Sanders · 09-19-2013, 02:27 PM

Thank you all so much for the info. It all looks actual aged, not fast aged reproduction. The leather has the right smell, too. As for the loading tool, I can't tell if it is a repo or not. It has that look and age to it that would be hard to fake. This just looked good, from the gut. I am the worst in trying to figure out re-blue or not. This didn't have the smell, there was wear on some high marks, but it was a beautiful, high percentage blue. I really like it, so your comments and ifo help.
Dave

Don M · 09-19-2013, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patronen

Nice R9 with history, congratulations on it if you decide to buy it. Very interesting reading in History Writ in Steel by Don Maus, page 168 chapter 11 with regards to the grip strap marking. It is a police marking from the Precinct Police of Konigsberg.
In the table on that page there is 1917 Erfurt P08 listed that has the exact same mark listed as cancelled.

I agree with Dave on the id but don't let the fact that a P08 had the same inventory number as this C96 bother you. Separate inventory series were used for different models of pistols.

Also, don't worry about the bluing in the police property mark and the lack of a halo. Red Nine C96s were used by the police in the early 1920s unmodified. When it became evident that they would not be replaced immediately by new P08s, they were modified in the mid-1920s to shorten the barrels and make them more appropriate for police use. Many of them had been stamped with a property marking before they were modified, thereby bluing over the property marking.

The pebblegrain holster is entirely appropriate for these shortened C96s. They were issued, especially in eastern Prussia, along with the reworked pistols. Stocks were not used by the police. This is a great rig at a super price.

alvin · 09-19-2013, 05:33 PM

If you bought it, and don't like that police holster, sell it to me

Jack Lawman · 09-19-2013, 08:53 PM

For comparison (no holsters):

http://www.joesalter.com/detail.php?f_qryitem=23935

Jack

alvin · 09-20-2013, 08:42 AM

That's probably right. If I sell mine, I would ask $2k, gun only, no holster, no stock.

09-18-2013, 11:57 PM	#2
Dave Sanders User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Hamer, Idaho Posts: 283 Thanks: 26 Thanked 43 Times in 22 Posts	last bunch Attached Thumbnails

09-19-2013, 08:10 AM	#4
Patronen User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 312 Thanks: 335 Thanked 93 Times in 70 Posts	Nice R9 with history, congratulations on it if you decide to buy it. Very interesting reading in History Writ in Steel by Don Maus, page 168 chapter 11 with regards to the grip strap marking. It is a police marking from the Precinct Police of Konigsberg. In the table on that page there is 1917 Erfurt P08 listed that has the exact same mark listed as cancelled. __________________ Dave

09-19-2013, 10:19 AM	#6
Schupo User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kansas City Metro Posts: 206 Thanks: 1 Thanked 102 Times in 47 Posts	Dave, As the others have said, this is a proper post-WWI German Police variation pistol that has been shortened and had the adjustable rear sight removed by the Polizei. All quite proper for this variation and in very nice complete condition. The second holster is a legitimate police variation as well. A nice rig at a very good price. I would buy it in a minute. __________________ "You can't please everyone, so you have got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

09-19-2013, 10:45 AM	#7
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	A very nice and not so commonly found rig. I wouldn't hesitate on buying it. IMO, it's worth the asking price +... __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

09-18-2013, 11:53 PM	#1
Dave Sanders User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Hamer, Idaho Posts: 283 Thanks: 26 Thanked 43 Times in 22 Posts	Versaiiles red 9 help I have a guy who wants to sell this broomhandle for $2000. It is all matching and really in nice shape, perhaps 98%. It has all the parts holster, leather straps, etc, and a single holster too. He said it was a red 9 made in 1919 for the military. The sn dates it to 1913. It is 9mm. I am really confused as to what the heck this really is. Can you broomhandle people shed some light and if it is a good price from what you can see from the pictures? It is the type I have been looking for. In hand, it is a beauty.Thanks. Dave Attached Thumbnails

09-19-2013, 07:32 AM	#3
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Some members knew this thing much better than me, but they are offline today. .... #120260 R9 was most likely made in 1918. On paper, there was a summary table on sales numbers of R9 from 1916 - 1921. But please note, that's sales number, not year of make. Those are made from 1916 - 1918. Year Sales Accumulate Sales 1916 24463 (24463) 1917 30000 (54463) 1918 64952 (119415) 1919 0 1920 14301 (133716) 1921 6933 (140649) The short barrel R9 was reworked on barrel and sight. In the process, it must be reblued. But say, it's reblued by Weimar government contractor, acceptable. On finish, the police stamp on grip should show strong halo. If that stamp has no halo, it must be reblued again after German. The banner stock was from a Mauser 1930. The body shows those straps, so sanded and re-oiled. But it does look like a genuine Mauser stock. The frog harness and the rod,,,, I cannot see clearly..... the rod looks like a replica. The leather holster does not look like a genuine one (but I have never had a police holster, other members definitely know more accurately on leather status). For $2000, the main focus is on that gun, stock, and frog harness. Say, stock and harness could go $800 - $1000 separately on ebay. Then the gun counts $1000 - $1200, plus other items. So the deal is good. For unknown reason, people love those R9.

09-19-2013, 08:23 AM	#5
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	2nd thought on the police holster. It's in superb shape.... assume this holster is valid, this one worth quite amount of $$. Not many of those are available, police holsters are rare.

09-19-2013, 02:27 PM	#9
Dave Sanders User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Hamer, Idaho Posts: 283 Thanks: 26 Thanked 43 Times in 22 Posts	Thank you all so much for the info. It all looks actual aged, not fast aged reproduction. The leather has the right smell, too. As for the loading tool, I can't tell if it is a repo or not. It has that look and age to it that would be hard to fake. This just looked good, from the gut. I am the worst in trying to figure out re-blue or not. This didn't have the smell, there was wear on some high marks, but it was a beautiful, high percentage blue. I really like it, so your comments and ifo help. Dave

09-19-2013, 05:33 PM	#11
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	If you bought it, and don't like that police holster, sell it to me

09-19-2013, 08:53 PM	#12
Jack Lawman User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Near NYC Posts: 428 Thanks: 30 Thanked 64 Times in 37 Posts	For comparison (no holsters): http://www.joesalter.com/detail.php?f_qryitem=23935 Jack __________________ Why do you guys hate black circles so much?

09-20-2013, 08:42 AM	#13
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	That's probably right. If I sell mine, I would ask $2k, gun only, no holster, no stock.