Requesting Help to Identify/Verify an Old Luger

BergThornson · 08-06-2023, 03:57 PM

Hello and Greetings!

I have recently purchased, what's presumed to be, a old reelect.

From what information I could find, on this website and others, I have gathered that this Luger is a 1900/1901 DWM Commercial Luger (7.65mm/4.75" barrel) with all matching serial numbers (#14262).
Definitely has some use to it but still has the bluing and the original grips.
The only markings it has;
-DWM on the top of the Toggle
-Matching Serial numbers (See attached Photos)
-A set of Factory Marks? on the bottom of the chamber (See attached)
-Number "4" stamped inside the lower assembly, below where the chamber would sit, forward of the trigger.

I was able to disassemble it and give her a good cleaning. (Storage dust and rust is extremely noticeable) And was able to give the wooden grips a good cleaning/wood protectant. Firing pin and toggle action is still good/working condition and but judging on the rust/dust, I'm sure hasn't been shot in quite some time.

The History on this Pistol is seen, but unfortunately, the seller only knew that it has been sitting in a closet in a shoe box for X amount of years.

Personally, its driving me nuts not knowing what this pistol has seen/been through and I'm desperately trying to find all the information that I can. Where it started in Karlsruhe, Germany and how it ended up in Northern Montana.

As a World War History buff, I couldn't pass up on this Luger. (Not accounting the fact that I have been wanting one since I was a kid.) Hence why I joined this website and respectfully reaching out for assistance in properly identifying this piece of history.

And before anyone assumes or ask, as money is nice to have. I am more looking for information and the known history of this Luger (Or what can be pieced together). But knowing the value of it wouldn't be ignored.

I would eventually like to have it placed in a shadowbox/display it with the known history.

So any assistance would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!

-Garry
USN/EN1

gunnertwo · 08-06-2023, 05:28 PM

Your Parabellum is a M1900 in 7.65 cal. It was probably made in 1902 (my guess). You can view info on the pistol by using the links on the left of this page. The grip panels are not original to the gun. Still a fine piece that has seen use. No problem with that.

G2

mrerick · 08-06-2023, 06:49 PM

Follow the FAQ link at the top of every forum page to the post that has our FAQ PDF document and you'll be able to download quite a bit of reference information accumulated from LugerForum posts.

It looks like a nice earlier commercial M1900 Luger.

The grips may have coarser checkering than factory grips, and may have been replaced at one point. They also appear to be in better condition than the metal which shows finish wear. If you remove them, use extreme care - especially on the left side - so that you don't damage or chip them. Most Lugers have a matching number inside the grips. Their appearance may relate to how they were cleaned as well.

There were many Lugers sold into Western US customer distribution. They even appear in some photographs of early 20th century cowboys as a favored modern firearm. Tracking an early 1900 DWM Luger would involve access to shipment and distributor data that doesn't likely exist anymore. DWM's factory was relocated to Mauser in the early 1930's, and there was also a world war after Mauser stopped P08 production in 1942.

Early distributors like Hans Tauscher were working out of New York City, and their business operations are long gone.

Dealers like Pacific Arms could have sold it:

https://www.landofborchardt.com/PAC.html

There are some early catalogs listed here:

https://www.landofborchardt.com/catalogs.html

Karl · 08-06-2023, 07:17 PM

Garry,

It appears that the grip safety has been removed and the extractor looks like a non-original replacement. Both parts may be available from "Lugerdoc" on the forum. Since there is a cutout in the original left grip for the grip safely, it may have been removed when the grips were changed.

KFS

BergThornson · 08-06-2023, 08:12 PM

Awesome! Thank you all for the great information! I see what I can find and see about getting fixed up to the original state, if that's possible.

-Garry

Mac Cat · 08-07-2023, 12:31 PM

That serial number is not on the Commercial database that I have access to.
But, it's unique enough I would certainly want to display it, too!

Some of the lugers in this range were American Eagles and many were stamped GERMANY for export. The export stamp may be on the front of the gun frame.

Also, I think it's special that some of these commercial lugers had 3-digits stamped on the smaller parts, like yours.

Nice find - thanks for sharing it.
I hope you'll post more photos.

BergThornson · 08-11-2023, 09:48 AM

Interesting! Assuming that this is really early model sold then. Love finding out all this information about it.

This Luger dose not have any other stamps, Including not having the "GERMANY" stamp on the frame. So its safe to assume that this gun was purchased in Germany itself.

But now I'm curious why the bottom frame has a " 4 " stamped on the inside of it, right below the barrel. Could this be from a different gun?

And another question out of curiosity; how often did German Soldiers and/or did their respective family members buy a pistol for The Great War? (If it did happen)
I know of American Soldiers and Marines themselves when heading overseas. To ensure they at lest had a pistol with them from home.

spangy · 08-11-2023, 04:35 PM

This is a handsome Luger Berg and will make an awesome display

Thanks for showing us Sir

ithacaartist · 08-12-2023, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BergThornson

This Luger dose not have any other stamps, Including not having the "GERMANY" stamp on the frame. So its safe to assume that this gun was purchased in Germany itself.

Commercial Lugers weren't subject to military acceptance markings, and you'll also notice that the matching serialized parts were marked discretely, out of general sight. I think also that the requirement for imported guns to be marked with their country of manufacture for import to the U.S. hadn't kicked in when your pistol was new in ~ 1902. But I forget specifically when it was implemented.

Quote:

But now I'm curious why the bottom frame has a " 4 " stamped on the inside of it, right below the barrel. Could this be from a different gun?

Such marks as this were commonly applied by the technicians of the various operations to keep track of the latter.

Quote:

]And another question out of curiosity; how often did German Soldiers and/or did their respective family members buy a pistol for The Great War? (If it did happen)
I know of American Soldiers and Marines themselves when heading overseas. To ensure they at lest had a pistol with them from home.

The P.08 was the standard issue sidearm for NCOs like sergeants. The myth here is "taking a Luger from the body of a dead officer." IIRC, commissioned officers were commonly charged with procuring their own pistols. Though some probably did buy Lugers, smaller caliber Walthers, Mausers, etc. were easier to carry.

gunbugs · 08-12-2023, 03:08 AM

ithacaartist:The P.08 was the standard issue sidearm for NCOs like sergeants. The myth here is "taking a Luger from the body of a dead officer." IIRC, commissioned officers were commonly charged with procuring their own pistols. Though some probably did buy Lugers, smaller caliber Walthers, Mausers, etc. were easier to carry.

Generally speaking, the higher the rank, the smaller the pistol. Officers didn't like packing around large pistols.

08-06-2023, 06:49 PM	#3
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Follow the FAQ link at the top of every forum page to the post that has our FAQ PDF document and you'll be able to download quite a bit of reference information accumulated from LugerForum posts. It looks like a nice earlier commercial M1900 Luger. The grips may have coarser checkering than factory grips, and may have been replaced at one point. They also appear to be in better condition than the metal which shows finish wear. If you remove them, use extreme care - especially on the left side - so that you don't damage or chip them. Most Lugers have a matching number inside the grips. Their appearance may relate to how they were cleaned as well. There were many Lugers sold into Western US customer distribution. They even appear in some photographs of early 20th century cowboys as a favored modern firearm. Tracking an early 1900 DWM Luger would involve access to shipment and distributor data that doesn't likely exist anymore. DWM's factory was relocated to Mauser in the early 1930's, and there was also a world war after Mauser stopped P08 production in 1942. Early distributors like Hans Tauscher were working out of New York City, and their business operations are long gone. Dealers like Pacific Arms could have sold it: https://www.landofborchardt.com/PAC.html There are some early catalogs listed here: https://www.landofborchardt.com/catalogs.html __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-11-2023, 09:48 AM	#7
BergThornson User Join Date: Aug 2023 Posts: 5 Thanks: 8 Thanked 6 Times in 2 Posts	Interesting! Assuming that this is really early model sold then. Love finding out all this information about it. This Luger dose not have any other stamps, Including not having the "GERMANY" stamp on the frame. So its safe to assume that this gun was purchased in Germany itself. But now I'm curious why the bottom frame has a " 4 " stamped on the inside of it, right below the barrel. Could this be from a different gun? And another question out of curiosity; how often did German Soldiers and/or did their respective family members buy a pistol for The Great War? (If it did happen) I know of American Soldiers and Marines themselves when heading overseas. To ensure they at lest had a pistol with them from home. Last edited by BergThornson; 08-11-2023 at 01:33 PM.

08-11-2023, 04:35 PM	#8
spangy Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 617 Thanks: 3,065 Thanked 1,057 Times in 429 Posts	This is a handsome Luger Berg and will make an awesome display Thanks for showing us Sir __________________ Whoever said that "money can't buy you happiness" never bought a Luger. WTB - Take Down Lever & Trigger Plate (#90) for an Imperial Artillery.

08-06-2023, 03:57 PM	#1
BergThornson User Join Date: Aug 2023 Posts: 5 Thanks: 8 Thanked 6 Times in 2 Posts	Requesting Help to Identify/Verify an Old Luger Hello and Greetings! I have recently purchased, what's presumed to be, a old reelect. From what information I could find, on this website and others, I have gathered that this Luger is a 1900/1901 DWM Commercial Luger (7.65mm/4.75" barrel) with all matching serial numbers (#14262). Definitely has some use to it but still has the bluing and the original grips. The only markings it has; -DWM on the top of the Toggle -Matching Serial numbers (See attached Photos) -A set of Factory Marks? on the bottom of the chamber (See attached) -Number "4" stamped inside the lower assembly, below where the chamber would sit, forward of the trigger. I was able to disassemble it and give her a good cleaning. (Storage dust and rust is extremely noticeable) And was able to give the wooden grips a good cleaning/wood protectant. Firing pin and toggle action is still good/working condition and but judging on the rust/dust, I'm sure hasn't been shot in quite some time. The History on this Pistol is seen, but unfortunately, the seller only knew that it has been sitting in a closet in a shoe box for X amount of years. Personally, its driving me nuts not knowing what this pistol has seen/been through and I'm desperately trying to find all the information that I can. Where it started in Karlsruhe, Germany and how it ended up in Northern Montana. As a World War History buff, I couldn't pass up on this Luger. (Not accounting the fact that I have been wanting one since I was a kid.) Hence why I joined this website and respectfully reaching out for assistance in properly identifying this piece of history. And before anyone assumes or ask, as money is nice to have. I am more looking for information and the known history of this Luger (Or what can be pieced together). But knowing the value of it wouldn't be ignored. I would eventually like to have it placed in a shadowbox/display it with the known history. So any assistance would be greatly appreciated! Thank you! -Garry USN/EN1 Attached Thumbnails

08-06-2023, 05:28 PM	#2
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 623 Thanks: 826 Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts	Your Parabellum is a M1900 in 7.65 cal. It was probably made in 1902 (my guess). You can view info on the pistol by using the links on the left of this page. The grip panels are not original to the gun. Still a fine piece that has seen use. No problem with that. G2

08-06-2023, 07:17 PM	#4
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 522 Thanks: 0 Thanked 271 Times in 118 Posts	Garry, It appears that the grip safety has been removed and the extractor looks like a non-original replacement. Both parts may be available from "Lugerdoc" on the forum. Since there is a cutout in the original left grip for the grip safely, it may have been removed when the grips were changed. KFS

08-06-2023, 08:12 PM	#5
BergThornson User Join Date: Aug 2023 Posts: 5 Thanks: 8 Thanked 6 Times in 2 Posts	Awesome! Thank you all for the great information! I see what I can find and see about getting fixed up to the original state, if that's possible. -Garry

08-07-2023, 12:31 PM	#6
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 728 Thanks: 2,092 Thanked 608 Times in 328 Posts	That serial number is not on the Commercial database that I have access to. But, it's unique enough I would certainly want to display it, too! Some of the lugers in this range were American Eagles and many were stamped GERMANY for export. The export stamp may be on the front of the gun frame. Also, I think it's special that some of these commercial lugers had 3-digits stamped on the smaller parts, like yours. Nice find - thanks for sharing it. I hope you'll post more photos.

08-12-2023, 03:08 AM	#10
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 659 Thanks: 365 Thanked 1,177 Times in 394 Posts	ithacaartist:The P.08 was the standard issue sidearm for NCOs like sergeants. The myth here is "taking a Luger from the body of a dead officer." IIRC, commissioned officers were commonly charged with procuring their own pistols. Though some probably did buy Lugers, smaller caliber Walthers, Mausers, etc. were easier to carry. Generally speaking, the higher the rank, the smaller the pistol. Officers didn't like packing around large pistols.