Help needed for identifying a specific luger model

timokui · 05-20-2019, 07:41 AM

Hi,

I need help for identifying this DWM 9mm luger. “The Borchardt-Luger Pistols” says that it is 1916 Commercial by serial number but “Standard Catalog of Luger” says that it is 1919 Commercial by serial number. Which one is right or not? What else could you tell about it?

DonVoigt · 05-20-2019, 09:47 AM

It is a New Model (1908 type) commercial luger.

Neither 1916 nor 1919 are "real" model designations, only something used by those books/authors.

It has a relieved sear bar, so made in 1916 or after; this may be where someone got the "1916" as a model.

Dwight Gruber has posted a link to his large list of commercial luger serial number data.
You can find the link in the stickies .

George Anderson · 05-20-2019, 09:48 AM

I believe that you have what is called a 1914 commercial. Likely an officer's private purchase pistol.

HerrKaiser · 05-20-2019, 10:30 AM

Given the Serial number, wouldn’t this pistol likely be an early post-war production? (75595 based on the pictures.) Most of the sources I’ve seen, including standard catalog for what it’s worth, have the 73xxx range as the cut off between the end of pre-war and the start of post-war production. My 5 digit commercial is only about 5000 pistols later than this one and most of what I found on it is that it was made sometime between 1919-21.

George Anderson · 05-20-2019, 10:49 AM

I base my call on the horizontal Crown/N proof.

Dwight Gruber · 05-20-2019, 11:26 AM

75595 falls into the serial range of the Swiss Basel canton police pistols (among others), which were produced in 1916 but did not reach the market until after the war's end. Most--but not all--have lazy c/N proofs, and most--but not all--are in 9mm. Any explanation for the observed characteristics is speculative.

This pistol is likely not a Basel police gun. The Basel pistols have a characteristic compressed spot on the right grip, just behind the magazine release, due to pressure from the snap closure of the service holster.

--Dwight

Dwight Gruber · 05-20-2019, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerrKaiser

Most of the sources I’ve seen, including standard catalog for what it’s worth...

Determining a convenient and accurate collector designation for commercial Lugers made between 1914 and 1921 has proved to be messy and contradictory.

The "Standard Catalog of Luger" is a particularly egregious purveyor of these terms, among other historical and factual errors, and should never be relied upon as a reference for any aspect of Luger pistols, ever.

--Dwight

timokui · 05-23-2019, 08:48 AM

Thank you all for helping!

05-20-2019, 07:41 AM	#1
timokui New User Join Date: May 2019 Location: Finland Posts: 2 Thanks: 6 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Help needed for identifying a specific luger model Hi, I need help for identifying this DWM 9mm luger. “The Borchardt-Luger Pistols” says that it is 1916 Commercial by serial number but “Standard Catalog of Luger” says that it is 1919 Commercial by serial number. Which one is right or not? What else could you tell about it? Attached Thumbnails

05-20-2019, 09:47 AM	#2
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	It is a New Model (1908 type) commercial luger. Neither 1916 nor 1919 are "real" model designations, only something used by those books/authors. It has a relieved sear bar, so made in 1916 or after; this may be where someone got the "1916" as a model. Dwight Gruber has posted a link to his large list of commercial luger serial number data. You can find the link in the stickies . __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

05-20-2019, 10:30 AM	#4
HerrKaiser User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: South Carolina Posts: 848 Thanks: 784 Thanked 861 Times in 411 Posts	Given the Serial number, wouldn’t this pistol likely be an early post-war production? (75595 based on the pictures.) Most of the sources I’ve seen, including standard catalog for what it’s worth, have the 73xxx range as the cut off between the end of pre-war and the start of post-war production. My 5 digit commercial is only about 5000 pistols later than this one and most of what I found on it is that it was made sometime between 1919-21. __________________ -QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22

05-20-2019, 09:48 AM	#3
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	I believe that you have what is called a 1914 commercial. Likely an officer's private purchase pistol.

05-20-2019, 10:49 AM	#5
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	I base my call on the horizontal Crown/N proof.

05-20-2019, 11:26 AM	#6
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,317 Times in 431 Posts	75595 falls into the serial range of the Swiss Basel canton police pistols (among others), which were produced in 1916 but did not reach the market until after the war's end. Most--but not all--have lazy c/N proofs, and most--but not all--are in 9mm. Any explanation for the observed characteristics is speculative. This pistol is likely not a Basel police gun. The Basel pistols have a characteristic compressed spot on the right grip, just behind the magazine release, due to pressure from the snap closure of the service holster. --Dwight

05-23-2019, 08:48 AM	#8
timokui New User Join Date: May 2019 Location: Finland Posts: 2 Thanks: 6 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thank you all for helping!