Interesting Luger on GunBroker

Kyrie · 05-13-2018, 04:58 PM

Pretty, pretty, gun:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/768808066

I'm sure I've seen this Luger, by serial number, in a Luger reference book. Kenyon? Memory fails.

Kyrie

Kyrie · 05-14-2018, 09:22 AM

Well, that gun sold fast. At 10K USD I'd bet there are a least two happy campers out there :-)

DonVoigt · 05-14-2018, 09:31 AM

Just for the record it was/is supposed to be a prototype 1902 "fat barrel", # 10045 b, with "gl" intertwined on the rear toggle.
Auction listing "ended", so we don't know for sure if it sold or at what price. From Minot, ND.

10046b is shown in pictures in Goertz and Sturgess.

DonVoigt · 05-14-2018, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben M.

auction says ended. does that mean sold?
no, seller could have ended the auction for any reason
rock island had same gun in feb. called it recreation. sold for $ 3163. https://www.rockislandauction.com/de...6173/dwm-luger

Nice catch on the auction listing.

Another seller to add to the "watch list" (watch out for).

g5m · 05-17-2018, 11:19 PM

It's a pretty pistol
Very sharp to catch the sale at Rock Island Auction!

I wonder how it shoots.

mrerick · 05-18-2018, 10:29 AM

Phineas T Barnum was, of course, right....

Collectors must understand that "a very rare Luger" may not have been made that way at the DWM factory.

The Rock Island people actually posted a video about this very gun:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfeQabNcokE

which I think you could describe as their poster child for a "Fake".

If the Gunbroker buyer wanted a fake for $10,000 then everyone should be satisfied in the sale.

Sometimes the most simple Internet search can help save collectors thousands of dollars.

The GunBroker ad's text is a study in legal wording. The word "original" doesn't appear in it. "Prototype" is absolutely true - except that it wasn't made by a authentic original Luger factory. And "consistent with the description of" has nothing to do with originality...

Caveat emptor.

DonVoigt · 05-18-2018, 04:33 PM

"If the Gunbroker buyer wanted a fake for $10,000 then everyone should be satisfied in the sale. "

You assume it sold, and that it sold for $10k, there is no evidence to that effect. The auction was ended. Maybe sold- maybe not- maybe someone caught on to the fantasy?

Robert in NC · 05-22-2018, 01:36 PM

The gunbroker page says "This item has sold", so I assume it sold. Although a sale price of $9,999.99 is suspicious.

DonVoigt · 05-22-2018, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert in NC

The gunbroker page says "This item has sold", so I assume it sold. Although a sale price of $9,999.99 is suspicious.

No, it says:

"Item has Ended".

I just checked again.

Robert in NC · 05-22-2018, 03:02 PM

No big deal, not trying to argue about it. Perhaps we're not seeing the same page

Kyrie · 05-22-2018, 09:01 PM

Yes sir, "This item has sold." on Gun Broker means pretty much just what it says.

I've just looked through the 700 odd other items offered by the same seller. He has some nice things (including a Danish contract 1910 Bergmann) at some not-so-nice prices. Also has a few more Lugers, but nothing that causes my gun greed to surge :-)

sheepherder · 05-22-2018, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert in NC

No big deal, not trying to argue about it. Perhaps we're not seeing the same page

It actually says both - Under the 'Time Left' is 'Item Has Ended' (shown in your pic, bottom right)...

DonVoigt · 05-22-2018, 10:04 PM

I love it when everyone is correct!

But this auction is still odd, "sold" items always have the "bid history", there is no bid history on this auction- maybe because there were no bids?

From one recent closed auction:

Current Bid
$1,820.00
Starting Bid
$1,495.00
No Reserve! 4 Bids Bid History
Time Left 15 min rule
Item has Ended
Ending Time
5/14/2018 7:53 PM

Kyrie · 05-24-2018, 06:36 AM

On Gun Broker an auction with the Buy-it-now option won't show any bids if the buy option is exercised before any bids are made.

This auction had the buy option, and (IIRC) was to run for 99 days. Minimum starting bid was so close to buy option price that the auction was effectively only a buy option auction.

Given the circumstances of the auction there were only two ways in which the auction could end early; buy option exercised or item withdrawn/auction cancelled. I was watching the auction and did not receive an item withdrawn/cancelled notification, as is usually done in either instance.

All of which leads me to the form an opinion that the gun sold at the buy option price.

Just my $0.02, offered FWIW.

Kyrie · 05-24-2018, 06:54 AM

This whole thing has piqued my interest.

As of today, the seller of the dubious 1902 has three other fairly high dollar Lugers up on Gun Broker, and has used the Buy-It-Now option in combination with the Make-An-Offer option:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/757284355

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/758308102

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/757287214

Interesting approach.

Kyrie · 05-24-2018, 07:06 AM

Addendum:

Just did a quick search for the Gun Broker seller or any of the three high dollar Lugers he is offering on "the usual suspects" (e.g. Gun Auction, Guns International, Guns America) and did not find any of the guns or any Luger seller of the same name.

05-13-2018, 04:58 PM	#1
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Interesting Luger on GunBroker Pretty, pretty, gun: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/768808066 I'm sure I've seen this Luger, by serial number, in a Luger reference book. Kenyon? Memory fails. Kyrie

05-14-2018, 09:31 AM	#3
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Just for the record it was/is supposed to be a prototype 1902 "fat barrel", # 10045 b, with "gl" intertwined on the rear toggle. Auction listing "ended", so we don't know for sure if it sold or at what price. From Minot, ND. 10046b is shown in pictures in Goertz and Sturgess. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

05-18-2018, 10:29 AM	#6
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Phineas T Barnum was, of course, right.... Collectors must understand that "a very rare Luger" may not have been made that way at the DWM factory. The Rock Island people actually posted a video about this very gun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfeQabNcokE which I think you could describe as their poster child for a "Fake". If the Gunbroker buyer wanted a fake for $10,000 then everyone should be satisfied in the sale. Sometimes the most simple Internet search can help save collectors thousands of dollars. The GunBroker ad's text is a study in legal wording. The word "original" doesn't appear in it. "Prototype" is absolutely true - except that it wasn't made by a authentic original Luger factory. And "consistent with the description of" has nothing to do with originality... Caveat emptor. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

05-18-2018, 04:33 PM	#7
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	"If the Gunbroker buyer wanted a fake for $10,000 then everyone should be satisfied in the sale. " You assume it sold, and that it sold for $10k, there is no evidence to that effect. The auction was ended. Maybe sold- maybe not- maybe someone caught on to the fantasy? __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

05-22-2018, 10:04 PM	#13
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	I love it when everyone is correct! But this auction is still odd, "sold" items always have the "bid history", there is no bid history on this auction- maybe because there were no bids? From one recent closed auction: Current Bid $1,820.00 Starting Bid $1,495.00 No Reserve! 4 Bids Bid History Time Left 15 min rule Item has Ended Ending Time 5/14/2018 7:53 PM __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

05-14-2018, 09:22 AM	#2
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Well, that gun sold fast. At 10K USD I'd bet there are a least two happy campers out there :-)

05-17-2018, 11:19 PM	#5
g5m User Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: desert Posts: 36 Thanks: 23 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	It's a pretty pistol Very sharp to catch the sale at Rock Island Auction! I wonder how it shoots.

05-22-2018, 01:36 PM	#8
Robert in NC User Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: North Carolina Posts: 32 Thanks: 32 Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts	The gunbroker page says "This item has sold", so I assume it sold. Although a sale price of $9,999.99 is suspicious.

05-22-2018, 03:02 PM	#10
Robert in NC User Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: North Carolina Posts: 32 Thanks: 32 Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts	No big deal, not trying to argue about it. Perhaps we're not seeing the same page

05-22-2018, 09:01 PM	#11
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Yes sir, "This item has sold." on Gun Broker means pretty much just what it says. I've just looked through the 700 odd other items offered by the same seller. He has some nice things (including a Danish contract 1910 Bergmann) at some not-so-nice prices. Also has a few more Lugers, but nothing that causes my gun greed to surge :-)

05-24-2018, 06:36 AM	#14
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	On Gun Broker an auction with the Buy-it-now option won't show any bids if the buy option is exercised before any bids are made. This auction had the buy option, and (IIRC) was to run for 99 days. Minimum starting bid was so close to buy option price that the auction was effectively only a buy option auction. Given the circumstances of the auction there were only two ways in which the auction could end early; buy option exercised or item withdrawn/auction cancelled. I was watching the auction and did not receive an item withdrawn/cancelled notification, as is usually done in either instance. All of which leads me to the form an opinion that the gun sold at the buy option price. Just my $0.02, offered FWIW.

05-24-2018, 06:54 AM	#15
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	This whole thing has piqued my interest. As of today, the seller of the dubious 1902 has three other fairly high dollar Lugers up on Gun Broker, and has used the Buy-It-Now option in combination with the Make-An-Offer option: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/757284355 https://www.gunbroker.com/item/758308102 https://www.gunbroker.com/item/757287214 Interesting approach.

05-24-2018, 07:06 AM	#16
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Addendum: Just did a quick search for the Gun Broker seller or any of the three high dollar Lugers he is offering on "the usual suspects" (e.g. Gun Auction, Guns International, Guns America) and did not find any of the guns or any Luger seller of the same name.