FXO mag reblue

grapppa · 02-26-2008, 08:23 PM

Anyone know how to reblue an FXO mag? I was thinking of rust blueing it...

G.T. · 02-26-2008, 08:47 PM

Hello grappa, I believe all fxo mags were salt blued, and a dark blue at that... policeluger might be the fellow who would know, as his bluing is excellent, and has been great for all my needs... I don't think the type of blue is as important as the metal prep before hand... you have to find a way to strip the old blue without altering the cold forming lines and striations that occured when they were made... also, removing the follower button is usually the end of the mag as we know it, as you don't want a blue follower??... Takes a special set of tools to get it right, even most of the time... best of luck to you, keep us posted on your results... til...lat'r...GT

grapppa · 02-27-2008, 07:06 AM

GT, this FXO had a broken base so I removed the pin and disassembled it...I also already stripped it to the bare metal using a mild muriatic acid solution. I figure that if I reblued the follower and all, I could just strip the blueing off the button afterwards. I guess I will try to rust blue it and see what happens, after all, its only value is as a spare for a shooter. I will, though, replace the bottom with a plastic replacement as they seem to be available. (BTW, GT, are you the same one I see you over on the P.38 forum?) Paul

G.T. · 02-27-2008, 08:41 AM

Hi Paul, yup! One'n'the same! I've been a member of the forums for quite awhile.. I can remember when a thousand members was quite a deal on the Luger forum... I can also remember when John D., Les C., and John S. took over and launched it into the fine place to hang out, that it is today!... I don't post to much, as there are only a few topics that I feel I can add information to.. fxo mags are one of my favorite areas of conversation... I have tried researching them on both sides of the ocean, and have had little success in finding out exactly how they were manufactured. I have a relatively small knowledge base, when compared to the effort I have made to learn about them... Having been produced in the Eastern block area of occupation didn't help much.... Heres what i know about them....

1) They are made using a process known as "cold drawn formed tubing" not extrusion, as is a common mis-nomer, they were never folded and welded...

2) The cold drawn formed process was modified gradually, to lessen weight and lessen milling, (machine) processes. Even though the tube was near net finished cross section, and dimension, there were some expensive and time consuming swaging and forming operations performed on the mag. As well as extensive machining...In short, a bunch of secondary operations..

3) The Black plastic bottoms were composed of a material called phenolic thermal setting resin, or better known to us as Bakelite.. This casting process required a pre measures set amount of material (powder / paste) to be inserted (not injected) into a mold by hand, (same for the grips) one at a time, and cured using heat and pressure, they didn't like doing it then, cuz it was slow, and they still don't like to do it now! Cuz it's slow.... The shine on the Bakelite is from mercury in the material, and the smell is from formeldahide (sp'?) Phenolic resin is extremely tough when new, brittle as glass when old. All the important chemicals leach out and the matrix must suffer as a result. (speculation on my part) Hence all the broken bottoms on all the fxo mags....

4) The bottom is held on with a single (.1181" or 3.00 MM) rivet made from dead soft 1000 series steel with as little carbon in it as possible, the tubes are drilled first, (.120") then the bottom is fixtured, drilled and assembled using the rivet, which is very gently upset on both ends

5) The followers, by all indications, are machined, not cast... and if cast, a lot of machining is done to them afterwards, they have a single acceptance stamp, I believe, on the left side to denote this....

6) I believe, the tubes were blued right after machining forging and cleaning, because of the forming lines and linear striations.. not to mention sharp edges, no polishing was attempted..

7) The follower button is unique to the mag type, but the only real difference is that the checkered part and the rim width of the head part are about .010" less in heigth each, net difference of .020" to .025" shorter over all ... under the head, or the stem is identical to any other mag button print...

8) The feed lips on the tube are swaged into there thicker beefier shape, I have not yet been able to discover if this was done cold or hot, or at which point in their construction it was done??? Many questions on this feature.. but again, it was not machined...

9) The wound box type spring seem to made of better quality spring wire, I would attribute the better performance to this fact alone, and not the spring shape... the two biggest areas of improvement in this type of mag, was eliminating the spring follower cap guide and with the redesigned bottom, eliminated spring bind when fully compressed, allowing full loading of the magazine at all times... Also the forged feed lips were a real plus, this mag suffered from shell separation at the feed lip rear corner, and that problem was never cured...

That's it! Now you know exactly what I know... The fxo mag is probably a small micro view as to why Germany lost the war... best to all, til...lat'r...GT

John Sabato · 02-27-2008, 09:55 AM

Thanks for the education on the FXO mag history and construction GT!

I also have a theory about the production of the feed lips. I think these tubes were cut to the appropriate shape, then the lips were hammer forged while the steel was soft, and then heat treated to the appropriate hardness just before bluing, and assembly. I can't see any other logical process to producing them... in my limited metal manufacturing process experience (2 years).

The Germans may have lost the war due to dedication to producing only quality products, but they sure made the best darn pistol mags ever made in the FXO...

grapppa · 02-27-2008, 07:39 PM

GT, Do you have any info regarding the blueing process?

G.T. · 02-28-2008, 10:48 PM

Hi grappa, I think it's just industrial oxide blue or black... Not for sure, But I don't believe Mauser blued them, I believe they were blued and assembled before they ever reached the gun manufactures... Best to you, til...lat'r...GT

02-26-2008, 08:23 PM	#1
grapppa User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hillsborough, NJ Posts: 147 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	FXO mag reblue Anyone know how to reblue an FXO mag? I was thinking of rust blueing it...

02-26-2008, 08:47 PM	#2
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,500 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,627 Times in 999 Posts	fxo mag Hello grappa, I believe all fxo mags were salt blued, and a dark blue at that... policeluger might be the fellow who would know, as his bluing is excellent, and has been great for all my needs... I don't think the type of blue is as important as the metal prep before hand... you have to find a way to strip the old blue without altering the cold forming lines and striations that occured when they were made... also, removing the follower button is usually the end of the mag as we know it, as you don't want a blue follower??... Takes a special set of tools to get it right, even most of the time... best of luck to you, keep us posted on your results... til...lat'r...GT

02-27-2008, 08:41 AM	#4
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,500 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,627 Times in 999 Posts	fxo Hi Paul, yup! One'n'the same! I've been a member of the forums for quite awhile.. I can remember when a thousand members was quite a deal on the Luger forum... I can also remember when John D., Les C., and John S. took over and launched it into the fine place to hang out, that it is today!... I don't post to much, as there are only a few topics that I feel I can add information to.. fxo mags are one of my favorite areas of conversation... I have tried researching them on both sides of the ocean, and have had little success in finding out exactly how they were manufactured. I have a relatively small knowledge base, when compared to the effort I have made to learn about them... Having been produced in the Eastern block area of occupation didn't help much.... Heres what i know about them.... 1) They are made using a process known as "cold drawn formed tubing" not extrusion, as is a common mis-nomer, they were never folded and welded... 2) The cold drawn formed process was modified gradually, to lessen weight and lessen milling, (machine) processes. Even though the tube was near net finished cross section, and dimension, there were some expensive and time consuming swaging and forming operations performed on the mag. As well as extensive machining...In short, a bunch of secondary operations.. 3) The Black plastic bottoms were composed of a material called phenolic thermal setting resin, or better known to us as Bakelite.. This casting process required a pre measures set amount of material (powder / paste) to be inserted (not injected) into a mold by hand, (same for the grips) one at a time, and cured using heat and pressure, they didn't like doing it then, cuz it was slow, and they still don't like to do it now! Cuz it's slow.... The shine on the Bakelite is from mercury in the material, and the smell is from formeldahide (sp'?) Phenolic resin is extremely tough when new, brittle as glass when old. All the important chemicals leach out and the matrix must suffer as a result. (speculation on my part) Hence all the broken bottoms on all the fxo mags.... 4) The bottom is held on with a single (.1181" or 3.00 MM) rivet made from dead soft 1000 series steel with as little carbon in it as possible, the tubes are drilled first, (.120") then the bottom is fixtured, drilled and assembled using the rivet, which is very gently upset on both ends 5) The followers, by all indications, are machined, not cast... and if cast, a lot of machining is done to them afterwards, they have a single acceptance stamp, I believe, on the left side to denote this.... 6) I believe, the tubes were blued right after machining forging and cleaning, because of the forming lines and linear striations.. not to mention sharp edges, no polishing was attempted.. 7) The follower button is unique to the mag type, but the only real difference is that the checkered part and the rim width of the head part are about .010" less in heigth each, net difference of .020" to .025" shorter over all ... under the head, or the stem is identical to any other mag button print... 8) The feed lips on the tube are swaged into there thicker beefier shape, I have not yet been able to discover if this was done cold or hot, or at which point in their construction it was done??? Many questions on this feature.. but again, it was not machined... 9) The wound box type spring seem to made of better quality spring wire, I would attribute the better performance to this fact alone, and not the spring shape... the two biggest areas of improvement in this type of mag, was eliminating the spring follower cap guide and with the redesigned bottom, eliminated spring bind when fully compressed, allowing full loading of the magazine at all times... Also the forged feed lips were a real plus, this mag suffered from shell separation at the feed lip rear corner, and that problem was never cured... That's it! Now you know exactly what I know... The fxo mag is probably a small micro view as to why Germany lost the war... best to all, til...lat'r...GT

02-27-2008, 09:55 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Thanks for the education on the FXO mag history and construction GT! I also have a theory about the production of the feed lips. I think these tubes were cut to the appropriate shape, then the lips were hammer forged while the steel was soft, and then heat treated to the appropriate hardness just before bluing, and assembly. I can't see any other logical process to producing them... in my limited metal manufacturing process experience (2 years). The Germans may have lost the war due to dedication to producing only quality products, but they sure made the best darn pistol mags ever made in the FXO... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-28-2008, 10:48 PM	#7
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,500 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,627 Times in 999 Posts	blue Hi grappa, I think it's just industrial oxide blue or black... Not for sure, But I don't believe Mauser blued them, I believe they were blued and assembled before they ever reached the gun manufactures... Best to you, til...lat'r...GT

02-27-2008, 07:06 AM	#3
grapppa User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hillsborough, NJ Posts: 147 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	GT, this FXO had a broken base so I removed the pin and disassembled it...I also already stripped it to the bare metal using a mild muriatic acid solution. I figure that if I reblued the follower and all, I could just strip the blueing off the button afterwards. I guess I will try to rust blue it and see what happens, after all, its only value is as a spare for a shooter. I will, though, replace the bottom with a plastic replacement as they seem to be available. (BTW, GT, are you the same one I see you over on the P.38 forum?) Paul

02-27-2008, 07:39 PM	#6
grapppa User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hillsborough, NJ Posts: 147 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	GT, Do you have any info regarding the blueing process?