swap meet winchester.

Jim Mac · 02-03-2019, 06:58 PM

leaving the swap meet this morning and I see a guy with a towel wrapped around something with a barrel sticking out of it, so I stopped and asked what was up. He just got to the swap meet and was bringing this rifle to his friends table. I asked what he had and he pulls out a old winchester lever rifle. I asked what he wanted for it, he tells me he just bought it at a yardsale yesterday in tombstone for 30 bucks and make a offer. I guess they demo'd a house and it was found in a wall (why couldnt it have been a Tommy gun?) anyway I offered 75 bucks, he came back at 100. so I brought it home. turns out to be a winchester 94 saddle ring carbine. according to the sn made in 1911. is missing the hammer spring, and screw, tang screw, the pivot pin and screw. all ordered this afternoon.
not sure what it's worth but still a cool old gun. Not going to buff it or anything. might order a used stock because the original is cracked and loose. Basically have $146 bucks total into it. looking down thebarrel it's still got good rifling. jim

sheepherder · 02-03-2019, 07:39 PM

Why not have someone like, oh, say, Jim Solomon give you an opinion on having the original stock repaired?

Jim Mac · 02-03-2019, 07:54 PM

I'm not sure if it's worth fixing. I really have no idea what the thing would be worth, I'm thinking finding a replacement stock and save the original, I think numrich had some factory 2nds for 25 bucks or so. jim

Mister Sunshine · 02-04-2019, 07:51 PM

Jim, do nothing to the rifle. I am sure there are many Winchester collectors who will gladly pay you several hundred dollars for it. The collector I talking about delights in obtaining these barn finds, for lack of a better term, stabilizing the rust and hanging them on the wall. You didn't say what caliber it was but I would guess it's a 30-30. You will never make a shooter out of it anyway, pass it on.

Ron Wood · 02-04-2019, 08:18 PM

A Winchester saddle-ring carbine found in a wall in Tombstone...man that has western lore written all over it! Sure there is no way to document it and it is little more than a wall hanger, but to a western buff it has to be like gold in them thar hills. I agree, I wouldn't do a thing to it.
Ron

Jim Mac · 02-04-2019, 09:30 PM

the rifling actually looks really good thanks to our dry climate. new parts should be here this week. it's a 30 30, I dont see any reason why I couldn't shoot the rifle with a tight fitting stock. I was reading where you take a pre 1982 penny, pour oil on the metal and rub it with the penny to get any rust off the outside. Sort of like the 0000 steel wool and oil without the little steel fibers.
last summer a guy at another swap meet had what was left of another winchester he found outside of tombstone, this swap meet is in sierra vista which is about 20 minutes from tombstone. jim

sheepherder · 02-04-2019, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Mac

I was reading where you take a pre 1982 penny, pour oil on the metal and rub it with the penny to get any rust off the outside. Sort of like the 0000 steel wool and oil without the little steel fibers.

Jim, you have got to open a new thread in the Repairs & Restoration forum to chronicle this. Take lots of close-up pics, before & after.

Edward Tinker · 02-04-2019, 11:19 PM

very cool - less is better in restoring

Ron Wood · 02-04-2019, 11:52 PM

Jim,
For heavy crusted rust I have found that the flattened mouth of a brass cartridge case used as a scraper works a bit better than a penny.
Ron

Jim Mac · 02-05-2019, 08:00 AM

thank you Ron, I'll give that a try. it's really not heavily rusted. the pics makes it look worse than it really is, theres baked on dirt. I'm just going to knock down the worst of the crud on the barrel. I learned that there is a difference in what's a correct stock for this thing. You can see how the stock is shrunk and cracked by the tang. A new stock has to be fitted and will look completely out of place on the rifle, but a used stock will probably have some issues. I might try epoxy on the inside to fill any voids to tighten the fit and fill the crack from the back side to keep the wood from falling apart. get it to function and leave it alone. I agree with leaving something like this u unrestored or even trying a shade tree restoration. To me it sort of takes the history of the rifle away. jim

Freischütz · 02-05-2019, 08:29 PM

On the Smith-Wesson website a 50/50 acetone and ATF mixture works wonders at removing rust and freeing screws. One puts the mix and gun in an airtight container for about a week.

Compare posts 1 and 29 for the before and after results.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-han...d-updated.html

MW2152 · 02-05-2019, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freischütz

On the Smith-Wesson website a 50/50 acetone and ATF mixture works wonders at removing rust and freeing screws. One puts the mix and gun in an airtight container for about a week.

Compare posts 1 and 29 for the before and after results.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-han...d-updated.html

Thanks for the heads up on that process, I had not heard of that before. I have a candidate for trying it on.

Jim Mac · 02-06-2019, 09:01 AM

got to looking at the rifle a little closer. looks like I need a new firing pin also. push it completely forward and the tip does not stuck out. Did some reading and found that these winchesters do not like to be dry fired. jim

DavidJayUden · 02-06-2019, 10:16 AM

Some firing pins are made too short to be pushed forward, and rely on inertia to send the tip far enough forward to hit the primer. That MAY be the case in your '94.
dju

John Sabato · 02-06-2019, 12:44 PM

Not a good idea to dry fire a 94 Winchester... they break their tips off... Don't ask me how I know. Use a Snap cap or at least a fired cartridge case...

wlyon · 02-06-2019, 01:16 PM

Make a snap cap from a resized or new case with a piece of eraser in the primer pocket. You can come up with many things to put in the primer pocket just make sure it is soft. Bill

Jim Mac · 02-06-2019, 10:10 PM

thanks for the idea on the snap cap. I have 1 30-30 round. I was going to pull the slug, dump the powder and see if the primer fires.
Now on to the progress. parts should be here Friday, I noticed the lever safety wasnt protruding through the bottom tang. there was a small burr on it, knocked off the burr, put the spring on it and the trigger safety works.
found a correct pattern stock on Ebay for 66 dollars shipped. it's a factory second, correct pre 1936 92 or 94 carbine stock. I'm thinking after fitting it, see how to go about making it look weathered so it doesnt look too out of place.
Goal is to be able to have this thing shooting and 100% functioning for under 250 dollars. jim

wlyon · 02-06-2019, 11:28 PM

If you have a piece of leather and a leather punch just punch out a piece the correct size (may take a couple pieces) and super glue it in the primer pocket. Bill

Jim Mac · 02-07-2019, 01:04 AM

Thanks. that sounds like a good idea. jim

Jim Mac · 02-08-2019, 11:51 PM

got my small parts installed. found out it looks like I'm missing the carrier. maybe a carrier spring but I cant find a decent schematic to see exactly what I have and what I need. I've got a new stock coming Monday. probably should have stopped where I'm at and just hung it on the wall. jim

02-03-2019, 06:58 PM	#1
Jim Mac User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 261 Thanks: 2 Thanked 67 Times in 35 Posts	swap meet winchester. leaving the swap meet this morning and I see a guy with a towel wrapped around something with a barrel sticking out of it, so I stopped and asked what was up. He just got to the swap meet and was bringing this rifle to his friends table. I asked what he had and he pulls out a old winchester lever rifle. I asked what he wanted for it, he tells me he just bought it at a yardsale yesterday in tombstone for 30 bucks and make a offer. I guess they demo'd a house and it was found in a wall (why couldnt it have been a Tommy gun?) anyway I offered 75 bucks, he came back at 100. so I brought it home. turns out to be a winchester 94 saddle ring carbine. according to the sn made in 1911. is missing the hammer spring, and screw, tang screw, the pivot pin and screw. all ordered this afternoon. not sure what it's worth but still a cool old gun. Not going to buff it or anything. might order a used stock because the original is cracked and loose. Basically have $146 bucks total into it. looking down thebarrel it's still got good rifling. jim Attached Thumbnails

02-03-2019, 07:39 PM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	Why not have someone like, oh, say, Jim Solomon give you an opinion on having the original stock repaired? __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

02-04-2019, 08:18 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	A Winchester saddle-ring carbine found in a wall in Tombstone...man that has western lore written all over it! Sure there is no way to document it and it is little more than a wall hanger, but to a western buff it has to be like gold in them thar hills. I agree, I wouldn't do a thing to it. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

02-04-2019, 11:52 PM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Jim, For heavy crusted rust I have found that the flattened mouth of a brass cartridge case used as a scraper works a bit better than a penny. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

02-06-2019, 12:44 PM	#15
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Not a good idea to dry fire a 94 Winchester... they break their tips off... Don't ask me how I know. Use a Snap cap or at least a fired cartridge case... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-03-2019, 07:54 PM	#3
Jim Mac User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 261 Thanks: 2 Thanked 67 Times in 35 Posts	I'm not sure if it's worth fixing. I really have no idea what the thing would be worth, I'm thinking finding a replacement stock and save the original, I think numrich had some factory 2nds for 25 bucks or so. jim

02-04-2019, 07:51 PM	#4
Mister Sunshine User Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Cherry Valley, Ca. Posts: 94 Thanks: 0 Thanked 29 Times in 20 Posts	Jim, do nothing to the rifle. I am sure there are many Winchester collectors who will gladly pay you several hundred dollars for it. The collector I talking about delights in obtaining these barn finds, for lack of a better term, stabilizing the rust and hanging them on the wall. You didn't say what caliber it was but I would guess it's a 30-30. You will never make a shooter out of it anyway, pass it on.

02-04-2019, 09:30 PM	#6
Jim Mac User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 261 Thanks: 2 Thanked 67 Times in 35 Posts	the rifling actually looks really good thanks to our dry climate. new parts should be here this week. it's a 30 30, I dont see any reason why I couldn't shoot the rifle with a tight fitting stock. I was reading where you take a pre 1982 penny, pour oil on the metal and rub it with the penny to get any rust off the outside. Sort of like the 0000 steel wool and oil without the little steel fibers. last summer a guy at another swap meet had what was left of another winchester he found outside of tombstone, this swap meet is in sierra vista which is about 20 minutes from tombstone. jim

02-04-2019, 11:19 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	very cool - less is better in restoring

02-05-2019, 08:00 AM	#10
Jim Mac User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 261 Thanks: 2 Thanked 67 Times in 35 Posts	thank you Ron, I'll give that a try. it's really not heavily rusted. the pics makes it look worse than it really is, theres baked on dirt. I'm just going to knock down the worst of the crud on the barrel. I learned that there is a difference in what's a correct stock for this thing. You can see how the stock is shrunk and cracked by the tang. A new stock has to be fitted and will look completely out of place on the rifle, but a used stock will probably have some issues. I might try epoxy on the inside to fill any voids to tighten the fit and fill the crack from the back side to keep the wood from falling apart. get it to function and leave it alone. I agree with leaving something like this u unrestored or even trying a shade tree restoration. To me it sort of takes the history of the rifle away. jim

02-05-2019, 08:29 PM	#11
Freischütz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Eastern Washington Posts: 125 Thanks: 9 Thanked 26 Times in 19 Posts	On the Smith-Wesson website a 50/50 acetone and ATF mixture works wonders at removing rust and freeing screws. One puts the mix and gun in an airtight container for about a week. Compare posts 1 and 29 for the before and after results. http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-han...d-updated.html

02-06-2019, 09:01 AM	#13
Jim Mac User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 261 Thanks: 2 Thanked 67 Times in 35 Posts	got to looking at the rifle a little closer. looks like I need a new firing pin also. push it completely forward and the tip does not stuck out. Did some reading and found that these winchesters do not like to be dry fired. jim

02-06-2019, 10:16 AM	#14
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Some firing pins are made too short to be pushed forward, and rely on inertia to send the tip far enough forward to hit the primer. That MAY be the case in your '94. dju

02-06-2019, 01:16 PM	#16
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,635 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,556 Times in 954 Posts	Make a snap cap from a resized or new case with a piece of eraser in the primer pocket. You can come up with many things to put in the primer pocket just make sure it is soft. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

02-06-2019, 10:10 PM	#17
Jim Mac User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 261 Thanks: 2 Thanked 67 Times in 35 Posts	thanks for the idea on the snap cap. I have 1 30-30 round. I was going to pull the slug, dump the powder and see if the primer fires. Now on to the progress. parts should be here Friday, I noticed the lever safety wasnt protruding through the bottom tang. there was a small burr on it, knocked off the burr, put the spring on it and the trigger safety works. found a correct pattern stock on Ebay for 66 dollars shipped. it's a factory second, correct pre 1936 92 or 94 carbine stock. I'm thinking after fitting it, see how to go about making it look weathered so it doesnt look too out of place. Goal is to be able to have this thing shooting and 100% functioning for under 250 dollars. jim

02-06-2019, 11:28 PM	#18
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,635 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,556 Times in 954 Posts	If you have a piece of leather and a leather punch just punch out a piece the correct size (may take a couple pieces) and super glue it in the primer pocket. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

02-07-2019, 01:04 AM	#19
Jim Mac User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 261 Thanks: 2 Thanked 67 Times in 35 Posts	Thanks. that sounds like a good idea. jim

02-08-2019, 11:51 PM	#20
Jim Mac User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 261 Thanks: 2 Thanked 67 Times in 35 Posts	got my small parts installed. found out it looks like I'm missing the carrier. maybe a carrier spring but I cant find a decent schematic to see exactly what I have and what I need. I've got a new stock coming Monday. probably should have stopped where I'm at and just hung it on the wall. jim