1921 police?

monk69 · 11-26-2002, 01:10 PM

I recently purchased a 1921 DWM serial number 4179b. All numbers match and it has both the sear and mag. safety(deactivated) The unit marking on the front grip strap looks like S.B.O. 11. 293. Any idea what it means. Thanks.

policeluger · 11-26-2002, 06:45 PM

Can you send a picture of the grip strap markings. it would help, I have a good idea what it may mean but the "0." throws me off a bit. thanks

monk69 · 11-26-2002, 11:08 PM

The engraving is rather worn and parts need to be read via a magniying glass. I doubt whether I can get a meaningful picture. I'll try, but in the interim what is your best guess.
Thanks.

policeluger · 11-27-2002, 12:21 AM

Does it look like the "O." could be an old marking that was not completly taken out and the "S.B." part is on top of it? thanks

Edward Tinker · 11-27-2002, 02:05 AM

Monk, can you do a pencil tracing of the marks? Where you put a piece of paper over the marks and lightly go back and forth and get a good tracing that way?

just a thought?

monk69 · 11-27-2002, 02:08 PM

Leave it to me to find an odd one. The O. is very clear and follows the S. and B. The pistol appears to be a rework based on the markings. It has 2 of the #31 markings shown in the technical page of this site and a third eagle in a circle that doesn't seem to appear in any of that pages markings. In fact under a magnifying glass it appears someone tried to scratch a connecting line between the lower feet of the II and lateraly through the B.There also appears to have been another number in the lower portion of the the front strap that is almost completly worn or mechanically removed. The .(dots) are clear and there is a very faint 2 but that's all that can be made out. My digital camera is broken, but I'll borrow one from work after the holidays and send some pictures. Hopefully they will help solve the mystery.

edgedealer · 12-04-2002, 12:50 AM

Hello Monk,
If you need answers concerning your markings, you should check out the forum where the experts are. Go to www.armscenter/forums/pistols. There you can find Jan Still,well known expert on unit markings, as well as ex lugerforum people like Garfield and Klaus. you need answers, then find them at that site.

monk69 · 12-04-2002, 01:29 PM

edgedealer, thanks for the direction, I will give that site a try also. I may have found the answer while surfing the old board messages over the holidays. A 1921 police with the same S.B.O. II markings was identified as a Berlin police Ost unit 2nd division issued pistol. Now all I have to do is find a copy of Still's Weimar Luger book to verify proofmarks and serial numbers.
Thanks to everyone who responded for the help.

wild b taken out of posting [img]biggrin.gif[/img] ebt

Ron Wood · 12-04-2002, 06:11 PM

Looks like an extra "b" sneaked into the description. It should be "Ost" (East). "Obst" is fruit. I knew Obst couldn't be right but I can't take credit for the correct interpretation. I sneaked over to another forum and found that the S.B.O. II marking is Schutzpolizei Berlin Ost II Bezirk (Municipal Police Berlin, East 2nd District). This is courtesy of former member Klaus Shad via Jan Still. Glad to see these guys still providing info to those of us that are much less expert.

wild b taken out of posting above Ron's ebt [img]wink.gif[/img]

Carl · 12-04-2002, 09:20 PM

Monk,
Check your private mail.
Carl

monk69 · 12-05-2002, 07:47 PM

I knew I should have kept up on my typing skills after college. But who thought we'd need them back then ( more years ago than I care to remember). It is "Ost", I have no idea how I stuck a b in there. Spell check on the site would be helpful to avoid those little blunders. At least it meant fruit and nothing more colorful.
Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

monk69 · 12-05-2002, 08:27 PM

Carl,
Sugarloaf, which is near Hazleton.

11-26-2002, 01:10 PM	#1
monk69 User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1921 police? I recently purchased a 1921 DWM serial number 4179b. All numbers match and it has both the sear and mag. safety(deactivated) The unit marking on the front grip strap looks like S.B.O. 11. 293. Any idea what it means. Thanks.

11-27-2002, 02:05 AM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,932 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,528 Times in 2,091 Posts	Monk, can you do a pencil tracing of the marks? Where you put a piece of paper over the marks and lightly go back and forth and get a good tracing that way? just a thought? __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-04-2002, 06:11 PM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,177 Times in 1,702 Posts	Looks like an extra "b" sneaked into the description. It should be "Ost" (East). "Obst" is fruit. I knew Obst couldn't be right but I can't take credit for the correct interpretation. I sneaked over to another forum and found that the S.B.O. II marking is Schutzpolizei Berlin Ost II Bezirk (Municipal Police Berlin, East 2nd District). This is courtesy of former member Klaus Shad via Jan Still. Glad to see these guys still providing info to those of us that are much less expert. wild b taken out of posting above Ron's ebt [img]wink.gif[/img] __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-26-2002, 06:45 PM	#2
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Can you send a picture of the grip strap markings. it would help, I have a good idea what it may mean but the "0." throws me off a bit. thanks

11-26-2002, 11:08 PM	#3
monk69 User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The engraving is rather worn and parts need to be read via a magniying glass. I doubt whether I can get a meaningful picture. I'll try, but in the interim what is your best guess. Thanks.

11-27-2002, 12:21 AM	#4
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Does it look like the "O." could be an old marking that was not completly taken out and the "S.B." part is on top of it? thanks

11-27-2002, 02:08 PM	#6
monk69 User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Leave it to me to find an odd one. The O. is very clear and follows the S. and B. The pistol appears to be a rework based on the markings. It has 2 of the #31 markings shown in the technical page of this site and a third eagle in a circle that doesn't seem to appear in any of that pages markings. In fact under a magnifying glass it appears someone tried to scratch a connecting line between the lower feet of the II and lateraly through the B.There also appears to have been another number in the lower portion of the the front strap that is almost completly worn or mechanically removed. The .(dots) are clear and there is a very faint 2 but that's all that can be made out. My digital camera is broken, but I'll borrow one from work after the holidays and send some pictures. Hopefully they will help solve the mystery.

12-04-2002, 12:50 AM	#7
edgedealer User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hawthorne,Ca Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello Monk, If you need answers concerning your markings, you should check out the forum where the experts are. Go to www.armscenter/forums/pistols. There you can find Jan Still,well known expert on unit markings, as well as ex lugerforum people like Garfield and Klaus. you need answers, then find them at that site.

12-04-2002, 01:29 PM	#8
monk69 User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	edgedealer, thanks for the direction, I will give that site a try also. I may have found the answer while surfing the old board messages over the holidays. A 1921 police with the same S.B.O. II markings was identified as a Berlin police Ost unit 2nd division issued pistol. Now all I have to do is find a copy of Still's Weimar Luger book to verify proofmarks and serial numbers. Thanks to everyone who responded for the help. wild b taken out of posting [img]biggrin.gif[/img] ebt

12-04-2002, 09:20 PM	#10
Carl User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Central PA Posts: 113 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts	Monk, Check your private mail. Carl

12-05-2002, 07:47 PM	#11
monk69 User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I knew I should have kept up on my typing skills after college. But who thought we'd need them back then ( more years ago than I care to remember). It is "Ost", I have no idea how I stuck a b in there. Spell check on the site would be helpful to avoid those little blunders. At least it meant fruit and nothing more colorful. Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

12-05-2002, 08:27 PM	#12
monk69 User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Carl, Sugarloaf, which is near Hazleton.