Please help identify my new Luger (pics in post)

Bryce · 08-15-2010, 04:45 AM

Hello all!! My name is Bryce. I have been reading allot on the forum the past couple days but I feel I have only really confused myself. I have a couple questions I was hoping I could get some help with.

I inherited a Luger from my grandfather and, this may sound odd, but I was instantly in awe of the history and just plain ‘ol coolness factor of the piece I held in my hand. I have shot handguns at firing ranges a few times but I have never owned a handgun. I am trying to see if I have a “shooter” or a first piece in a collection. It’s pretty dirty and it has surface rust. It came with a holster, no take down tool, and two magazines one is black with plastic bottom pieces and no numbers that I found, the other is silver with wood bottom peices (sorry I'm not sure the technical term). He carved his initials into the leather on the holster as well as the safety side of the grip. Which I’m sure hurts the value substantially but that’s ok because I’m not looking to sell it I just would like an approximate value because I’m curious.
Thanks,
Bryce

Edward Tinker · 08-15-2010, 06:22 AM

1913 (yr made) by DWM (manufacturer).

It s a shooter because of the surface rust. Take some oil and 0000 steel wool (brass wool is better) AND gently rub it down, much of the active rust will come off.

Being a 1913 its much more rarer than say a 1918 DWM, but condition makes the item valueable 98% of the time (rarity is the other factor).

Ed

DavidJayUden · 08-15-2010, 08:27 AM

Welcome!
Seems to me that a very good cleaning and preservation will go a long ways.
While I'd not throw it in the bottom of the bag to take to the river to blast away with, I'd not be afraid to carefully shoot it a bit either. Those older guns may be a smidge more fragile than the slightly newer ones.
Regardless whether it is a shooter or collectable, clean it up, protect your heiloom/investment and enjoy it. There are always other Lugers out there to buy as either shooters or collecters.
Value with holster, maybe $750 to $1000 depending on which side of the counter you are standing.
Remember that one man's shooter may be another man's collecter depending on how many or how nice his other Lugers are.
dju

Vlim · 08-15-2010, 10:00 AM

Nice old war horse. I think it earned it's right to be retired by now, though, even when it is in less than pristine condition. Preserve it and enjoy it for what it is, an honest 1913 DWM.

The blued magazine with the black plastic bottom may well be a late Haenel type magazine with bakelite bottom. These magazines have a decent market value of their own.

On the other hand, it may just be a post war 'shooter grade' magazine. Hard to tell without photo.

mrerick · 08-15-2010, 10:29 AM

Hi Bryce,

Welcome to the forum!

You have a piece of family history here... Your grandfather may have received papers from his officer in Europe that gave him permission to return to the USA with his "War Trophy". If you still have access to his papers, you might try and find those.

If he has ever told you his "Bring back story", consider contributing it to the forum here that discusses those.

Your 1913 DWM was made just a few years after the design was accepted by the German army. Many more were made after the start and through the end of WW-I.

Get some spray gun oil / preservative. RemOil is good, and commonly available at WalMart stores in the USA.

Carefully remove the grips by taking out the screw with a proper screwdriver that fills the thickness of the slot and the width of the screw. Be very careful not to damage the screw.

There are instructions here on how to remove the grips. The left side can particularly be chipped, so read them and be careful. Check the Tech info area of this site. They lift out slightly from the bottom screw area, then slide out from under the safety on the left.

Disassemble the gun, and give it a good soaking spray of the preservative oil. Let it sit.

When I have to remove rust (the FeO3 form of Iron Oxide) from a Blued (FeO4 form of Iron Oxide) surface, I work very slowly and carefully. You want to remove the surface red oxide (which is softer) and leave the surface blue-black oxide.

I developed a technique that works well for me. Take a Q-Tip (made on a paper or wood rod) and take a small Q-Tip size tuft of #0000 Steel Wool. Wrap the steel wool around the end of the Q-Tip so that it forms a cushioned handle. Soak the end of the Q-Tip/Steel Wool in preservative oil. You now have a tool that you can use to gently and slowly remove the red oxide from the surface of the gun.

On the stampings (like the DWM) with surface rust, work gently along the lines of the stamping.

Don't try and remove all the red oxide you'll see deeply in the surface. Some of that is normal in a 100 year old gun. Just focus on the surface rust.

Between removal of the active rust and proper preservative oiling, you should be able to stabilize your Luger.

Collecting lugers is really a balance of values. Many collectors don't like refinished guns because it takes away from the historic value of the weapon. Some value a perfect appearance over everything else. In your case, the value is it's connection to your family's history and honoring your grandfather's service. It's all good!

Marc

Bryce · 08-15-2010, 11:11 PM

Thank you guys for the help and the warm welcome. It would have taken me forever to get all the info together and I’m sure I still would have questioned myself. I am going to pick up some cleaning supplies tomorrow and see if I can get it shined up and looking good again. Once I get it back together I would like to run a few rounds through it. Both clips it came with had ammunition in them but I don’t want to even attempt to fire it, the copper has turned green and they are a little sticky from something. Is there a special ammo I need to buy for this or can I just go to my local gun shop and get a box of 9mm shells?
Thank you all again for the help, it is greatly appreciated!

P.S.
Here is a few pics of the magazines.

mrerick · 08-16-2010, 10:49 AM

Hi,

It's possible that the ammo you found is actually an antique (perhaps WW-I or WW-II vintage). If that is the case, it is collectible. Some pictures of it including the headstamps would be helpful to those collectors on the forum.

Both the magazines are original. The first is period correct to a WW-I gun. The second is from a later WW-II Luger. It's a Haenel Schmeisser manufactured extruded steel magazine and considered to be the best operating magazine for a Luger.

Use common Winchester white box 9MM ammo if you can locate it. WalMart stores carried it here. 115gn or 124gn bullets should be fine. Avoid higher power rounds. Some marked "NATO" standard are, in fact, hotter than you should fire. You do NOT want hot 9mm for your Luger. It's close to 100 years old, and wasn't designed for hot rounds.

Marc

08-15-2010, 04:45 AM	#1
Bryce User Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Please help identify my new Luger (pics in post) Hello all!! My name is Bryce. I have been reading allot on the forum the past couple days but I feel I have only really confused myself. I have a couple questions I was hoping I could get some help with. I inherited a Luger from my grandfather and, this may sound odd, but I was instantly in awe of the history and just plain ‘ol coolness factor of the piece I held in my hand. I have shot handguns at firing ranges a few times but I have never owned a handgun. I am trying to see if I have a “shooter” or a first piece in a collection. It’s pretty dirty and it has surface rust. It came with a holster, no take down tool, and two magazines one is black with plastic bottom pieces and no numbers that I found, the other is silver with wood bottom peices (sorry I'm not sure the technical term). He carved his initials into the leather on the holster as well as the safety side of the grip. Which I’m sure hurts the value substantially but that’s ok because I’m not looking to sell it I just would like an approximate value because I’m curious. Thanks, Bryce

08-15-2010, 06:22 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,917 Thanks: 1,996 Thanked 4,508 Times in 2,082 Posts	1913 (yr made) by DWM (manufacturer). It s a shooter because of the surface rust. Take some oil and 0000 steel wool (brass wool is better) AND gently rub it down, much of the active rust will come off. Being a 1913 its much more rarer than say a 1918 DWM, but condition makes the item valueable 98% of the time (rarity is the other factor). Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-15-2010, 10:29 AM	#5
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,901 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Hi Bryce, Welcome to the forum! You have a piece of family history here... Your grandfather may have received papers from his officer in Europe that gave him permission to return to the USA with his "War Trophy". If you still have access to his papers, you might try and find those. If he has ever told you his "Bring back story", consider contributing it to the forum here that discusses those. Your 1913 DWM was made just a few years after the design was accepted by the German army. Many more were made after the start and through the end of WW-I. Get some spray gun oil / preservative. RemOil is good, and commonly available at WalMart stores in the USA. Carefully remove the grips by taking out the screw with a proper screwdriver that fills the thickness of the slot and the width of the screw. Be very careful not to damage the screw. There are instructions here on how to remove the grips. The left side can particularly be chipped, so read them and be careful. Check the Tech info area of this site. They lift out slightly from the bottom screw area, then slide out from under the safety on the left. Disassemble the gun, and give it a good soaking spray of the preservative oil. Let it sit. When I have to remove rust (the FeO3 form of Iron Oxide) from a Blued (FeO4 form of Iron Oxide) surface, I work very slowly and carefully. You want to remove the surface red oxide (which is softer) and leave the surface blue-black oxide. I developed a technique that works well for me. Take a Q-Tip (made on a paper or wood rod) and take a small Q-Tip size tuft of #0000 Steel Wool. Wrap the steel wool around the end of the Q-Tip so that it forms a cushioned handle. Soak the end of the Q-Tip/Steel Wool in preservative oil. You now have a tool that you can use to gently and slowly remove the red oxide from the surface of the gun. On the stampings (like the DWM) with surface rust, work gently along the lines of the stamping. Don't try and remove all the red oxide you'll see deeply in the surface. Some of that is normal in a 100 year old gun. Just focus on the surface rust. Between removal of the active rust and proper preservative oiling, you should be able to stabilize your Luger. Collecting lugers is really a balance of values. Many collectors don't like refinished guns because it takes away from the historic value of the weapon. Some value a perfect appearance over everything else. In your case, the value is it's connection to your family's history and honoring your grandfather's service. It's all good! Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-16-2010, 10:49 AM	#7
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,901 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Hi, It's possible that the ammo you found is actually an antique (perhaps WW-I or WW-II vintage). If that is the case, it is collectible. Some pictures of it including the headstamps would be helpful to those collectors on the forum. Both the magazines are original. The first is period correct to a WW-I gun. The second is from a later WW-II Luger. It's a Haenel Schmeisser manufactured extruded steel magazine and considered to be the best operating magazine for a Luger. Use common Winchester white box 9MM ammo if you can locate it. WalMart stores carried it here. 115gn or 124gn bullets should be fine. Avoid higher power rounds. Some marked "NATO" standard are, in fact, hotter than you should fire. You do NOT want hot 9mm for your Luger. It's close to 100 years old, and wasn't designed for hot rounds. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-15-2010, 08:27 AM	#3
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Welcome! Seems to me that a very good cleaning and preservation will go a long ways. While I'd not throw it in the bottom of the bag to take to the river to blast away with, I'd not be afraid to carefully shoot it a bit either. Those older guns may be a smidge more fragile than the slightly newer ones. Regardless whether it is a shooter or collectable, clean it up, protect your heiloom/investment and enjoy it. There are always other Lugers out there to buy as either shooters or collecters. Value with holster, maybe $750 to $1000 depending on which side of the counter you are standing. Remember that one man's shooter may be another man's collecter depending on how many or how nice his other Lugers are. dju

08-15-2010, 10:00 AM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,049 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,957 Times in 1,200 Posts	Nice old war horse. I think it earned it's right to be retired by now, though, even when it is in less than pristine condition. Preserve it and enjoy it for what it is, an honest 1913 DWM. The blued magazine with the black plastic bottom may well be a late Haenel type magazine with bakelite bottom. These magazines have a decent market value of their own. On the other hand, it may just be a post war 'shooter grade' magazine. Hard to tell without photo.

08-15-2010, 11:11 PM	#6
Bryce User Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you guys for the help and the warm welcome. It would have taken me forever to get all the info together and I’m sure I still would have questioned myself. I am going to pick up some cleaning supplies tomorrow and see if I can get it shined up and looking good again. Once I get it back together I would like to run a few rounds through it. Both clips it came with had ammunition in them but I don’t want to even attempt to fire it, the copper has turned green and they are a little sticky from something. Is there a special ammo I need to buy for this or can I just go to my local gun shop and get a box of 9mm shells? Thank you all again for the help, it is greatly appreciated! P.S. Here is a few pics of the magazines.