Commercial Luger date?

[tugbrass1]

Hi Everyone,
I just purchased my first Luger! However, the previous owner could not tell me very much about the history of the pistol.
It is a commercial 7.65 mm DMW marked handgun serial no. 8990.
There are no alpha characters anywhere near the serial number stamping. There are no date marks anywhere on the pistol. All of the relative parts are marked with the last two digits of the serial no. This pistol was part of a collection that was put up for sale. There are no other insignia markings. This pistol was well cared for and it is in near pristine condition with slight wear to the bluing on both sides of the muzzle and the high point of the latch plate.
The barrel bore looks new but it has the same serial number as the frame and the witness marks perfectly align.
I hope that someone could provide some information about this weapon, especially the place and date of manufacture.
Joe McHugh

[DavidJayUden]

I have a number of questions, all of which could either satisfied in about 10 paragraphs of questions, andwers, more questions, more answers, OR a few photographs...
I prefer the latter.
dju

[tugbrass1]

I understand your desire for a digital image of my luger but my camera died and I have not yet replaced it. I even thought about sending a scanned image but the results were not usable.
I have been researching several reference books that I purchased about the Luger and I should be up to speed enough to be able to answer any questions in a concise and coherent manner. From what I have already read I think that my #8990 luger was made about 1919. Of course that is just a guess.

[MFC]

Your description doesn't fit Luger production of that time. Military Lugers of that time frame have a date over the chamber. Commercial Lugers made in that time frame have a 5 digit serial#. Does it have dished or flat toggle knobs? Are the serial#'s stamped in plain sight or are they stamped in the hidden/commercial style? Is the barrel 4 3/4" or 3 7/8" long? Is there a stock lug on the rear grip strap? Does it have a grip safety?
As David stated pictures would answer many questions.

[tugbrass1]

Hi MFC,
There are no marks or stampings over the receiver. It is a perfect blued surface with no tool marks.
The serial number is 8990.
It has flat toggle knobs.
The serial number appears in two places, on the front of the receiver just below the barrel in plain sight and it also appears on the bottom of the barrel just in front of the frame.
The overall barrel length is 3 3/4 inches long. The length from the muzzle to the front of the receiver frame is exactly 3-inches.
Yes, there is a stock lug located at the rear bottom area of the hand grip. No, it does not have a grip safety. The only reason that I refer to this handgun as a commercial pistol is because that's how the previous owner described it.
I fully understand that a camera image is worth a thousand words.
Joe McHugh

[tugbrass1]

Hey guys,
More information about my Luger. In Charles Kenyon, Jr's book "Lugers At Random", page 181 shows an exact duplicate image of my Luger #8990. Except for the serial number I could not differentiate between my pistol and the image of the one in the book.
Joe McHugh

[MFC]

Kenyon has two versions of 'Lugers at Random' (first addition and revised). My first addition shows a 1920 Commercial on page 181. This designation has been more correctly named DWM Alphabet Commercial. All of these have a suffix which is part of the S#, a lower case cursive letter under the S#, on the front of the frame and on the underside of the barrel. The last two digits stamped on other parts are in the commercial or hidden style. It also has C/N firing proofs on the barrel, left side of the receiver and, on the breechblock. Those are commercial proofs.

[lugersrkewl]

what does it say when the safety lever is in the safe position ?
Gesichert or safe ?
what does the extractor say when pulled up vertically?
geladin or loaded?

[tugbrass1]

Hi,
MFC & Lugersrkewl,
The safety exposes the word "Gesichert" when pivoted.
The extractor shows the word "Geladin" when up.
And yes, there is a lower case cursive i stamped into both the barrel and the frame locations near the serial number stamps.
The C/N firing proofs are just as MFC described.
My "Lugers at Random" book is the 1st printing November 1969 version.
If I had a working camera, my Luger image would be indistinguishable from the picture on page 181 in the book "Lugers at Random".
All of the two digit serial number stampings are easy to see but "out of the way" on the sides or bottoms of the respective parts.
I hope this helps in determining the manufacturing date and location of the build facility.
Joe McHugh

[lugersrkewl]

Its a commercial alphabet dwm. with the I suffix its an earlier run. early twentys on the production. build facility would be the dwm plant in Berlin? the most mass produced luger style ever.

[MFC]

According to Still's 'Weimar Lugers' #8990i was made in the latter part of 1921.

[lugersrkewl]

round about 14000 a year as a w.a.g.

I just found this 1920 commercial erfurt with vopo grips reworked for commercial sale even.
wow
It would be a nice shooter for alot less and in 9
Hes highlighting parts in a lugers at random book too...



http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=314175677

[tugbrass1]

Hi, Lugersrkewl and MFC
I greatly appreciate your efforts in researching the history of my new luger acquisition. My luger is in excellent condition and will join the other rifles and shotguns in my collection. I am building a curly cherry presentation box for it as we communicate. Obviously, I am a gun collector and I do not anticipate shooting the luger. It will remain in its present condition for the enjoyment of future generations. I am retired and my hobby is making fine furniture. Pistol cases are not much of a challenge to fabricate but the selection of wood and color of the velvet will make or break the "Wow!" effect.
Thanks again for your help.
Joe McHugh

[CAP Black]

I just sent you a PM. Look in your private messages tab.
Jack

[skeeter4206]

Reading this thread about the 8990i serial number being made around 1921. My question and curiousity now is that I have a luger that has the serial number 8034j. The barrel has the 8034 serial number as does does most of the gun except the toggle and sideplate. The top of the chamber reads "1916". Is that the year this luger was made? The toggle has a S/42 stamp. Im sure this is a russian capture or a pieced together gun. Im thinking RC with the black coating on it, which is horrible.

I was just curious about this serial number with the letter "j" because someone else in another thread commeneted on the letter "j" and the year 1916 as not being many known.

Whats yalls opinions.

[MFC]

Sceeter,
Military, contract and commercial S#'s are three different sequences and are not related to each other. The 'j' suffix on your 1917 Erfurt frame is part of a military S# sequence of that year. The 'i' suffix on Joe's Luger, made in 1921, is part of the commercial S# sequence that began in 1900 and ended in 1942.

[larryhobby]

I have a Luger with serial. Number 86173 any idea when manufactured and approximate value as it really looks good

[Dwight Gruber]

Sometime between 1916-1920.

--Dwight

[lugersrkewl]

welcome to the forum
If you would like an estimate of value you will have to post quality sharp pics of all sides , top , serial and markings