1908 Navy

Brent B. · 06-01-2005, 09:24 AM

I had a fellow walk into my office and offer me what turned out to be a 1908 Navy Luger, no grip safety, 100/200 rear site, s/n 3509b is all matching and the last 2 digits on the bottom of the take down lever and sideplate and other normal places. Unit marking of W.K.10506 on the rear grip strap. This was the first time I'd seen one other then in photos and needless to say I'm very pleased to have it. The only part of the pistol that gives me some concern is the sideplate. I tried some WD40 on it to see if it was touched up but no change occured to the finish. Did I read somewhere that Acetone could be used to remove suspected reblue? I also lucked out in going thru my extra mags and found an original navy mag (s/n not matching) but with the correct markings. Very little straw remains and the finish is thinning on the left side of the chamber and a couple of areas on the barrel. Any thoughts on the WD40 or Acetone?

John Sabato · 06-01-2005, 10:15 AM

I don't know what you paid for it Brent, but cold-blue or not, it would be a treat to own a Navy Luger...

Please post clear closeup photos when you get the chance... if you need help doing that, ask...

acetone or wd-40 will not harm the finish (and should remove most traces of cold blue) on your gun (but keep it away from the grips) and don't leave it on the gun... use a good lube like Breakfree once your cleaning is finished.

Brent B. · 06-01-2005, 10:26 AM

John: Thanks for getting back with me. I paid $1,000 for it and was thinking that even if it had some reblue on it I could at least get my money back if/when I would sell it.

I just got a Coolpix 4100 and will try to post some photos a little later today.

I'll be sure to break it down and also remove the grips before using the Acetone.

I've had it to the range twice and both times had a small crowd wanting to look at it. It shot great.

Thanks, Brent

John Sabato · 06-01-2005, 11:44 AM

You stole it if you got it for $1000 Brent... I can't wait to see the photos...

Brent B. · 06-01-2005, 11:49 AM

John: Would it be a steal at $1,000 if there's some reblue on it? I'm getting some Acetone shortly and the photos will hopefully be arriving this afternoon. THanks, Brent

John Sabato · 06-01-2005, 12:06 PM

Brent, a new REPRODUCTION (not original) navy rear sight toggle sells for about $400... If you got a WHOLE authentic Navy Luger for $1000... you did better than all right... the photos will tell the story...

If what you bought is a "faked" Navy Luger... the price is still not outrageous unless it was presented as an original Navy, considering the cost of the rear sight/ barrel modifications and a 'donor' 1920's commercial 9mm Luger that it was built out of...

regardless, it will be a GREAT shooter even if it isn't a "collectable"...
If you can't post photos soon, at least describe all markings and locations...

Brent B. · 06-01-2005, 01:04 PM

John:

I've got an older computer and the new camera needs to have to photos downloaded on my sons newer computer. Will there be any problem sending the photos from his computer? Will I need to have my password, etc.? I'm just getting ready to shoot some photos and he should be back in the office in about an hour. Thanks, Brent

Edward Tinker · 06-01-2005, 02:10 PM

yes, you will have to sign in as yourself on that computer to upload to the forum. Or, you could; download the photos, re-size them, then put on a USB key and transfer them to your computer

And, how often to folks come by and offer you lugers at your work?

Ed

Brent B. · 06-01-2005, 02:20 PM

Ed: When someone talks computer stuff to me they might as well be speaking in Latin. My son's a lot more aware of computer things then I am, the old dog new tricks thing. Still waiting on him to get back from lunch.

The seller knew I collected Lugers but that's the first time he's stopped in with one. He used to have a gun shop and the only other dealings I've had with him was when he wanted to buy my M1-D Garand and he gave me an old 45 x 70 Springfield trapdoor I'd been admiring and a sizeale amount of cash. The trapdoor turned out to be a 50 x 70 so I think I did even better then I originally thought.

I took the Acetone to the Luger but there was no change in the color/finish and then oiled everything.

Brent

Brent B. · 06-01-2005, 03:00 PM

Here are the URL's with pics.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn0403.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn0404.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn0405.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn0406.jpg

John Sabato · 06-01-2005, 03:22 PM

Brent, check your PM's for some suggestions on photos...

Please show the dismantled upper receiver and the rear toggle axle... and also need to see the front and rear sights and the underside of the barrel/receiver as well.

Brent B. · 06-01-2005, 03:29 PM

John:

My son just left the office for the day but I'll get closer photos and do the things you mentioned. Please allow for some time as depending on appointments it might be the day after tomorrow before we can get things done. Thanks, Brent

John Sabato · 06-01-2005, 03:33 PM

No hurry Brent... whenever you get to it is fine...

The Crown M (Kriegsmarine) stamps have given me some concern that the Luger may not be a genuine Navy... but further photos should help out in making that determination. We need Tom A and Leo to chime in and give you an evaluation...

later,

Heinz · 06-01-2005, 08:34 PM

Brent, I would be glad to let you make your money back and then I could take the pictures. But, seriously, your coolpix Nikon will take great closeups if you get a tripod to mount it on and the use slow exposures and a couple of 100 watt bulbs for light. If you expose for a couple of seconds you can actually move the light around to get rid of glare and shadows. Just practice. Since it is digital you can erase the mistakes.

Navy · 06-01-2005, 09:39 PM

Pending better pix, my inclination is that the proofs are legit. Congrats on a very good find at an excellent price.

Tom A.

Dwight Gruber · 06-01-2005, 09:47 PM

Brent,

At first glance I don't share John Sabato's reservations about the c/M markings, but he is right that better--closer--sharper--photos will be useful. It would be a good idea if you removed the 'whitening' in the marks, this can obscure determining detail. The acetone with which you are willing to subject your Luger should suffice for this.

I am intrigued by the appearance that the breechblock proof is an Erfurt Imperial eagle.

--Dwight

Brent B. · 06-02-2005, 05:52 AM

I got out "Imperial Lugers" and the proof marks are:

crown on the left side of the barrel

crown, crownM & crownM on the left side of the Receiver

crown on the breech block

The s/n of 3509B and a smaller crownM is under the barrel and the 3509B on the front of the receiver, there's the 09 on the bottom of the take down lever, on the bottom of the sideplate, safety and, I'm not sure if it's called the sear bar?

There's the "100" in front of the rear site and when extended has the "200" on the metal colored area.

The unit mark is on the back grip strap.

The breechblock has an 09 under the crown and I see an 09 when it's turned upside down.

The inside of the grips are marked.

I'm hoping my son will be back in the office around noon or so today and will get the additional photos that have been requested.

Thank's to everyone for the input.

Brent

John Sabato · 06-02-2005, 10:29 AM

Thank you Tom A, and Dwight for weighing in on this evaluation... the obscurity created by the heavy application of white in the stamps was my basis for concern... I look forward to the next set of photos without the white enhancement... (But if Tom A, thinks from what he has already seen that your Navy is righteous, I wouldn't be too concerned...) We shall wait for your son to do the photo magic with anticipation...

Brent B. · 06-03-2005, 11:48 AM

New Navy Luger photos, some have white and some have the white removed.

Navy · 06-03-2005, 09:32 PM

With the caveat that nothing can be 100% assured via photos, I stand behind my original assement. This is a correct gun which may or may not have been back through a navy arsenal during it's service life.

Congrats; you have a keeper at a third of it's value.

Tom A

06-01-2005, 09:24 AM	#1
Brent B. User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1908 Navy I had a fellow walk into my office and offer me what turned out to be a 1908 Navy Luger, no grip safety, 100/200 rear site, s/n 3509b is all matching and the last 2 digits on the bottom of the take down lever and sideplate and other normal places. Unit marking of W.K.10506 on the rear grip strap. This was the first time I'd seen one other then in photos and needless to say I'm very pleased to have it. The only part of the pistol that gives me some concern is the sideplate. I tried some WD40 on it to see if it was touched up but no change occured to the finish. Did I read somewhere that Acetone could be used to remove suspected reblue? I also lucked out in going thru my extra mags and found an original navy mag (s/n not matching) but with the correct markings. Very little straw remains and the finish is thinning on the left side of the chamber and a couple of areas on the barrel. Any thoughts on the WD40 or Acetone?

06-01-2005, 10:15 AM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I don't know what you paid for it Brent, but cold-blue or not, it would be a treat to own a Navy Luger... Please post clear closeup photos when you get the chance... if you need help doing that, ask... acetone or wd-40 will not harm the finish (and should remove most traces of cold blue) on your gun (but keep it away from the grips) and don't leave it on the gun... use a good lube like Breakfree once your cleaning is finished. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-01-2005, 11:44 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	You stole it if you got it for $1000 Brent... I can't wait to see the photos... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-01-2005, 12:06 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Brent, a new REPRODUCTION (not original) navy rear sight toggle sells for about $400... If you got a WHOLE authentic Navy Luger for $1000... you did better than all right... the photos will tell the story... If what you bought is a "faked" Navy Luger... the price is still not outrageous unless it was presented as an original Navy, considering the cost of the rear sight/ barrel modifications and a 'donor' 1920's commercial 9mm Luger that it was built out of... regardless, it will be a GREAT shooter even if it isn't a "collectable"... If you can't post photos soon, at least describe all markings and locations... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-01-2005, 03:22 PM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Brent, check your PM's for some suggestions on photos... Please show the dismantled upper receiver and the rear toggle axle... and also need to see the front and rear sights and the underside of the barrel/receiver as well. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-01-2005, 10:26 AM	#3
Brent B. User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John: Thanks for getting back with me. I paid $1,000 for it and was thinking that even if it had some reblue on it I could at least get my money back if/when I would sell it. I just got a Coolpix 4100 and will try to post some photos a little later today. I'll be sure to break it down and also remove the grips before using the Acetone. I've had it to the range twice and both times had a small crowd wanting to look at it. It shot great. Thanks, Brent

06-01-2005, 11:49 AM	#5
Brent B. User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John: Would it be a steal at $1,000 if there's some reblue on it? I'm getting some Acetone shortly and the photos will hopefully be arriving this afternoon. THanks, Brent

06-01-2005, 01:04 PM	#7
Brent B. User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John: I've got an older computer and the new camera needs to have to photos downloaded on my sons newer computer. Will there be any problem sending the photos from his computer? Will I need to have my password, etc.? I'm just getting ready to shoot some photos and he should be back in the office in about an hour. Thanks, Brent

06-01-2005, 02:10 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,021 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	yes, you will have to sign in as yourself on that computer to upload to the forum. Or, you could; download the photos, re-size them, then put on a USB key and transfer them to your computer And, how often to folks come by and offer you lugers at your work? Ed

06-01-2005, 02:20 PM	#9
Brent B. User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed: When someone talks computer stuff to me they might as well be speaking in Latin. My son's a lot more aware of computer things then I am, the old dog new tricks thing. Still waiting on him to get back from lunch. The seller knew I collected Lugers but that's the first time he's stopped in with one. He used to have a gun shop and the only other dealings I've had with him was when he wanted to buy my M1-D Garand and he gave me an old 45 x 70 Springfield trapdoor I'd been admiring and a sizeale amount of cash. The trapdoor turned out to be a 50 x 70 so I think I did even better then I originally thought. I took the Acetone to the Luger but there was no change in the color/finish and then oiled everything. Brent

06-01-2005, 03:00 PM	#10
Brent B. User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here are the URL's with pics. http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn0403.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn0404.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn0405.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn0406.jpg

06-01-2005, 03:29 PM	#12
Brent B. User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John: My son just left the office for the day but I'll get closer photos and do the things you mentioned. Please allow for some time as depending on appointments it might be the day after tomorrow before we can get things done. Thanks, Brent

06-01-2005, 03:33 PM	#13
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	No hurry Brent... whenever you get to it is fine... The Crown M (Kriegsmarine) stamps have given me some concern that the Luger may not be a genuine Navy... but further photos should help out in making that determination. We need Tom A and Leo to chime in and give you an evaluation... later, __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-01-2005, 08:34 PM	#14
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Brent, I would be glad to let you make your money back and then I could take the pictures. But, seriously, your coolpix Nikon will take great closeups if you get a tripod to mount it on and the use slow exposures and a couple of 100 watt bulbs for light. If you expose for a couple of seconds you can actually move the light around to get rid of glare and shadows. Just practice. Since it is digital you can erase the mistakes.

06-01-2005, 09:39 PM	#15
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Pending better pix, my inclination is that the proofs are legit. Congrats on a very good find at an excellent price. Tom A.

06-01-2005, 09:47 PM	#16
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,894 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,291 Times in 426 Posts	Brent, At first glance I don't share John Sabato's reservations about the c/M markings, but he is right that better--closer--sharper--photos will be useful. It would be a good idea if you removed the 'whitening' in the marks, this can obscure determining detail. The acetone with which you are willing to subject your Luger should suffice for this. I am intrigued by the appearance that the breechblock proof is an Erfurt Imperial eagle. --Dwight

06-02-2005, 05:52 AM	#17
Brent B. User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I got out "Imperial Lugers" and the proof marks are: crown on the left side of the barrel crown, crownM & crownM on the left side of the Receiver crown on the breech block The s/n of 3509B and a smaller crownM is under the barrel and the 3509B on the front of the receiver, there's the 09 on the bottom of the take down lever, on the bottom of the sideplate, safety and, I'm not sure if it's called the sear bar? There's the "100" in front of the rear site and when extended has the "200" on the metal colored area. The unit mark is on the back grip strap. The breechblock has an 09 under the crown and I see an 09 when it's turned upside down. The inside of the grips are marked. I'm hoping my son will be back in the office around noon or so today and will get the additional photos that have been requested. Thank's to everyone for the input. Brent

06-02-2005, 10:29 AM	#18
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Thank you Tom A, and Dwight for weighing in on this evaluation... the obscurity created by the heavy application of white in the stamps was my basis for concern... I look forward to the next set of photos without the white enhancement... (But if Tom A, thinks from what he has already seen that your Navy is righteous, I wouldn't be too concerned...) We shall wait for your son to do the photo magic with anticipation... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-03-2005, 11:48 AM	#19
Brent B. User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	New Navy Luger photos, some have white and some have the white removed. http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn0427.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn0428.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn0429.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn0430.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn0431.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn0432.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn0433.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn0434.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn0435.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn0437.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn0439.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn0440.jpg

06-03-2005, 09:32 PM	#20
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	With the caveat that nothing can be 100% assured via photos, I stand behind my original assement. This is a correct gun which may or may not have been back through a navy arsenal during it's service life. Congrats; you have a keeper at a third of it's value. Tom A