TP barrel

jeffs · 08-15-2009, 03:00 PM

Dear Experts

Is it known if the East Germans used for their luger reworkds new luger barrels from the former Technische Polizeischule in Berlin, marked with the superimposed TP and an eagle,?

I have a VoPo luger (1912 DWM) with just such a barrel in pristine condition, along with byf toggles and breechblock that were numerically forcematched to the DWM. I am trying to figure out if the barrel was added before the end of the war by the Nazis, or after the war by the East Germans.

Thanks,
Jeff

Schupo · 08-15-2009, 10:27 PM

Jeff,

I am not aware of the DDR using old TP police barrels as new-old-stock (NOS) or re-proofing old TP barrels. The new ones they used are marked with the Suhl markings (not the Berlin TP. Do you have a barrel with both markings or a postwar date? How about a photo?

Vlim · 08-16-2009, 10:33 AM

Hi,

East-Germany normally used newly made barrels. These were proofed with the commercial crown/N proof in Suhl.

Any absence of a crown/N would rule out East-German interference.
If eagle-proofed that could make it an early postwar or war time conversion.

jeffs · 08-17-2009, 08:12 PM

Please find attached a picture of the barrel. One of the reasons I am confused is that neither the barrel nor the byf toggle train appear to have been dipped in the Russian black gook, which the rest of the pistol clearly has been. Here is what I am speculating for the history of the pistol.

Around 1920, transferred to police use, judging by the evidence of a past Schiwy safety.
The TP barrel some time 1935 of after, since that is when the superimposed TP was created (when the police academy in Berlin changed its name to the Technische Polizeischule)
1941 or after, the toggle train.
1945 or after, the Russian dip
Some time after that, to the VoPos, as shown by the obliterated VoPo sunburst, the replaced, the new grips, and two 2/1001 magazines numbered to the pistol (1912 DWM, #1450)

THe mystery to me is: Why doesn't barrel have the Russian dip?

The surface of the pistol is in terrific condition.

Thanks,
Jeff

Schupo · 08-18-2009, 09:27 AM

Jeff,

The TP barrel could match the scenario you mention. It may be that the barrel was OK and did not need replacement in the 1950s or it may be a case of assembly by the "parts is parts" theory. It seems that it went through the Volkspolizei shop at some point in time since you indicate it has defaced VP proofs. Since some parts are dipped and some are not my best guess would be that it was assembled from parts on hand, the VP proof was defaced, and it was part of the pistols sold to the West for hard currency around the fall of the DDR. One will find this same type of mixed and forced matched assembly with ex-VP P.38 pistols from this time period. Some of this assembly was done by police armorers and some by dealers who bought these pistols and parts in bulk. I don't think a police armorer would have assembled a pistol with a mis-matched finish for Volkspolizei use.

jeffs · 08-18-2009, 08:32 PM

Thanks for your help!

Sincerely,
Jeff Showell

08-15-2009, 10:27 PM	#2
Schupo User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kansas City Metro Posts: 206 Thanks: 1 Thanked 102 Times in 47 Posts	Jeff, I am not aware of the DDR using old TP police barrels as new-old-stock (NOS) or re-proofing old TP barrels. The new ones they used are marked with the Suhl markings (not the Berlin TP. Do you have a barrel with both markings or a postwar date? How about a photo? __________________ "You can't please everyone, so you have got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

08-17-2009, 08:12 PM	#4
jeffs User Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Please find attached a picture of the barrel. One of the reasons I am confused is that neither the barrel nor the byf toggle train appear to have been dipped in the Russian black gook, which the rest of the pistol clearly has been. Here is what I am speculating for the history of the pistol. Around 1920, transferred to police use, judging by the evidence of a past Schiwy safety. The TP barrel some time 1935 of after, since that is when the superimposed TP was created (when the police academy in Berlin changed its name to the Technische Polizeischule) 1941 or after, the toggle train. 1945 or after, the Russian dip Some time after that, to the VoPos, as shown by the obliterated VoPo sunburst, the replaced, the new grips, and two 2/1001 magazines numbered to the pistol (1912 DWM, #1450) THe mystery to me is: Why doesn't barrel have the Russian dip? The surface of the pistol is in terrific condition. Thanks, Jeff Attached Thumbnails

08-18-2009, 09:27 AM	#5
Schupo User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kansas City Metro Posts: 206 Thanks: 1 Thanked 102 Times in 47 Posts	Jeff, The TP barrel could match the scenario you mention. It may be that the barrel was OK and did not need replacement in the 1950s or it may be a case of assembly by the "parts is parts" theory. It seems that it went through the Volkspolizei shop at some point in time since you indicate it has defaced VP proofs. Since some parts are dipped and some are not my best guess would be that it was assembled from parts on hand, the VP proof was defaced, and it was part of the pistols sold to the West for hard currency around the fall of the DDR. One will find this same type of mixed and forced matched assembly with ex-VP P.38 pistols from this time period. Some of this assembly was done by police armorers and some by dealers who bought these pistols and parts in bulk. I don't think a police armorer would have assembled a pistol with a mis-matched finish for Volkspolizei use. __________________ "You can't please everyone, so you have got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

08-15-2009, 03:00 PM	#1
jeffs User Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	TP barrel Dear Experts Is it known if the East Germans used for their luger reworkds new luger barrels from the former Technische Polizeischule in Berlin, marked with the superimposed TP and an eagle,? I have a VoPo luger (1912 DWM) with just such a barrel in pristine condition, along with byf toggles and breechblock that were numerically forcematched to the DWM. I am trying to figure out if the barrel was added before the end of the war by the Nazis, or after the war by the East Germans. Thanks, Jeff

08-16-2009, 10:33 AM	#3
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,046 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,946 Times in 1,197 Posts	Hi, East-Germany normally used newly made barrels. These were proofed with the commercial crown/N proof in Suhl. Any absence of a crown/N would rule out East-German interference. If eagle-proofed that could make it an early postwar or war time conversion.

08-18-2009, 08:32 PM	#6
jeffs User Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for your help! Sincerely, Jeff Showell