Suffix info Krieghoff/Suhl

[n467us]

Hi all, my newest discovery is a Krieghoff/Suhl 7.65, marked "Germany" on the R/S side, SN89XXi. My question is about the "i" SN suffix, I am not seeing much info on that range. It is C/N proofed and all numbers match as far as I can see. Any input please?

[Lugerdoc]

The "i" suffix was the beginning of the DWM Alpha-numeric (military type) serialization on commerical pistols beginning in about 1920. KH is know to have purchased at least 2000 pistols in that range (most are "Kreighoff/Suhl" marked on the rear of frame) for resale. TH

[n467us]

Originally Posted by Lugerdoc

The "i" suffix was the beginning of the DWM Alpha-numeric (military type) serialization on commerical pistols beginning in about 1920. KH is know to have purchased at least 2000 pistols in that range (most are "Kreighoff/Suhl" marked on the rear of frame) for resale. TH

This particular one is toggle marked, no marks on rear of frame. See my avatar pic. Thanks for the "i" info, that answers my question.

[drbuster]

Geniune HK manufactured lugers never exceeded the amount in any single year to have ANY suffix, let alone "i". If yours has such a suffix, then if it is one of the early so-called DWM-Krieghoffs, it should be marked "Krieghoff Suhl" on the back of the frame. These early commercial C/N proofed lugers were indeed in the "i" suffix but to have the toggle marked with the HK anchor logo is very rare and even controversial. It would be very useful to see pictures of the entire gun, with closeups of the toggle marking, rear of frame, front of frame, under barrel and right side of the receiver.

[n467us]

A few more pictures...........

[George Anderson]

I suspect that what you have may be a post war DWM with a Krieghoff toggle train; a parts gun.

[wlyon]

I agree with George. Bill

[drbuster]

Eugen, unless the rear of the frame above the lanyard loop is marked "Krieghoff SUHL", than I have to agree with George and Bill. If this marking is there, then you have a very rare DWM/Krieghoff, which I doubt. It is not known how many DWM/Krieghoffs were marked with the HK anchor logo on the toggle, but very few. Also, the configuration of that marking, as reported, differs from yours.

[n467us]

Originally Posted by drbuster

Eugen, unless the rear of the frame above the lanyard loop is marked "Krieghoff SUHL", than I have to agree with George and Bill. If this marking is there, then you have a very rare DWM/Krieghoff, which I doubt. It is not known how many DWM/Krieghoffs were marked with the HK anchor logo on the toggle, but very few. Also, the configuration of that marking, as reported, differs from yours.

I refer to reference material:
'Lugers at Random'...by Charles Kenyon Jr....

This book shows a DWM/Krieg on p311 with Krieg/Suhl on back of frame with DWM toggle(as you mention above).
Then on p315 it shows a DWM/Krieg with nothing on back of frame with a Krieg toggle. (Makes sense not to duplicate the maker). Book goes on to say:
""Manufactured by DWM for resale by Krieghoff, this unusual variant is the first Luger to bear the Krieghoff trademark on the front toggle link (w/o frame marked logo) pistol is SN#9124i, very limited production of 100-200 pieces.
I went ahead and asked for a scan of this page out of the book so as not to disrupt the authors wording.

As far as this being a "train gun", I don't buy into that theory, the owner inherited this (and several others) from his uncle who purchased it and many other Lugers in 1920's, I have known the owner since I was a youngster. Growning older, he has decided to part with a few of his weapons and this particular one interests me the most out of the many he has.
Do I think the book is correct? Well, sounds good, but I came here for additional opinions and certainly appreciate you all giving me any additional input on the subject. Has anyone any other printed info on this subject?
From looking around, the price of Luger books makes them as collectable as weapons too

[drbuster]

Eugen, It's easy to "knock" specimens on the Forum as pictures don't tell the whole story. Your HK luger is a dead ringer for the one on page 311 of Kenyon's LAR. Your photo of the HK anchor logo is very similar as described, especially the configuration of the arrow points. It would be nice to see close up views of the toggle as Kenyon also describes the logo as taking up a larger percentage of the toggle area. And of course, your serial number and "i suffix fit in with the "one known gun." You may have one rare bird in your hands!

[n467us]

Originally Posted by drbuster

Eugen, It's easy to "knock" specimens on the Forum as pictures don't tell the whole story. Your HK luger is a dead ringer for the one on page 311 of Kenyon's LAR. Your photo of the HK anchor logo is very similar as described, especially the configuration of the arrow points. It would be nice to see close up views of the toggle as Kenyon also describes the logo as taking up a larger percentage of the toggle area. And of course, your serial number and "i suffix fit in with the "one known gun." You may have one rare bird in your hands!

I will see if I can get a better shot of the toggle/stamp. The original pic was focused on the wrong part of the toggle. It is good to discuss this with all of you I didn't know where to turn for discussion.