9mm 124 grain FMJ loads with Unique

[TheRomanhistorian]

So, a friend gave me a full canister of unopened Unique but I've not used it. I'm only reloading using Trail Boss and Bullseye at the moment. I would prefer to save my pound of Bullseye for my Broomhandle given how hard it is to find pistol powders these days.

I have 500 124 grain FMJ Hornady bullets (could not find the FMJFP bullets Sieger recommended, though). I did see Sieger's Bullseye load for this but I'd like to use up this Unique.

I saw DJU's post:
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...=unique+powder

Using 5.4 grains of Unique with 115 grain FMJ bullets. I was pondering starting at 5.0 grains of Unique with 124 and work up by 0.1 grains.

Any thoughts/advice? I'm used to reloading 7.62 Nagant revolver, .455 Webley, and 7.63 Mauser so this is a first foray into 9mm.

[rhuff]

I like loading with Unique Powder for many calibers, including 9mm. I have been using it longer than I want to admit to. I wish I could lay my hands on 10-15 lbs. of it, but it is a rare as hen's teeth in my area. I have had spotty reliability with fast powders like Red Dot and Bullseye in the P08 Luger. I can make it work, but not as good as the slower burners.

I usually load 9mm with 115gr FMJ bullets, and currently use 5.5gr of Unique. I see no problem with starting with 5.0-5.1gr of Unique with 124gr FMJ and going up until you get reliable functioning of your Luger. I would only load a few(10-12) at the starting load, as I don't believe that it will cycle your toggle train, but it might. Every Luger is it's own entity. You can increase your loads 0.1-0.2gr for each step and see how things go for you and your Luger. I would keep your OAL long as Lugers like it that way, but the rounds must fit your chamber and mags. A long OAL is a safety factor also, as it lowers the chamber pressures.

Let us know how things work out.

[TheRomanhistorian]

Thanks! I picked up one of the old Lee Classic Loaders for $10 when I was visiting family in Idaho so thought I'd take a crack at it. I have the FMJ RN bullets so I was going to try 1.17" as I've seen Sieger and others suggest and maybe load up 5 rounds to test next Sunday at the range.

It just seemed a shame to have this Unique sitting around doing nothing!

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by TheRomanhistorian

Thanks! I picked up one of the old Lee Classic Loaders for $10 when I was visiting family in Idaho so thought I'd take a crack at it. I have the FMJ RN bullets so I was going to try 1.17" as I've seen Sieger and others suggest and maybe load up 5 rounds to test next Sunday at the range.

It just seemed a shame to have this Unique sitting around doing nothing!

Hi,

I'd go as low as 4.8 grains of Unique and work up in 1/10 of a grain increments.

To find your bottom, load one round each at 4.8,4.9... etc. until when firing them singly, your hold open device works. This will be your starting point. Next, with a full magazine of 8 rounds, go up 1/10 of a grain until your groups tighten nicely. Your cutoff point should be around 5.6 grains or so.

Some swear by Unique in the 9mm, but for me, I've only had so so performance and accuracy with it.

With round nose bullets, your OAL should be just at 1.173 inches, but you might want to read the sticky in this section on how to determine proper OAL when reloading a new bullet type. Actually, your accuracy loads won't vary all that much in powder charge between the 115 and 124 grain bullets. Sometimes by only 1/10 of a grain or so.

Good shooting!!!


Sieger

P.S.: I bought the Lee Hand Press around 1983 or so and am still using it. For less than $20.00 then, I've certainly gotten my moneys worth!!

[TheRomanhistorian]

Thanks, Sieger! You two have given me much to think about!

[noylj]

Get a couple of manuals and start with the lowest starting load. I work up usually in about five increments from start to max.
Unique, as much as I like the powder, has not been very good in 9x19. The most accurate powder in my 9x19s has been Power Pistol (used to be Herco before PP came out and I got some). Other really good powders are Silhouette, True Blue, Herco (of course), N340, and AA5. Some have found WSF to be very good, but my pistols haven't cared for it.
Load a couple of inert dummy rounds at max COL, remove enough case mouth flare so rounds will chamber (or, if loading jacketed, try no flare at all), and work COL down until the rounds feed and chamber. I found that hand cycling carefully is best for Lugers (P-08s), as I don't have the same ability to pull the toggle as I do a slide. In general, the most accurate COL is the longest that feeds and chambers 100%.
COL depends on many things: the exact ogive geometry of the bullet, the magazine (how long a round it will hold and when it releases the round to be fed), the feed ramp, and the chamber (particularly the throat). Thus, COLs in manuals can be no more than a minimum the data applies to, since they don't have the exact same variables you have.

[TheRomanhistorian]

Thank you, gentlemen. I did load up a few round at about 1.173" or so (I loaded enough to fill a magazine and they chambered properly and ejected easily enough). I don't have any of the powders you mentioned and they're hard to get here (I haven't seen pistol powder in the Seattle area in a year and a bit).

Michael

[rhuff]

In your original post you stated that you had acquired Unique Powder and wanted some assistance in developing 9mm loads with said Unique Powder. That is why I responded the way that I did, trying to offer you some assistance.

Had you ask what powders work well in 9mm cases and their load data, then I would have responded differently, as there are many pistol powders out there that will function well in 9mm brass......you just can't find/purchase them. These days, if you have pistol powder in your hand, then you are ahead of the game, rather that suggesting using "pie in the sky" pistol powders that just aren't available for purchasing, at least not to me in my area. Hopefully this will correct itself soon, but right now, one uses what one has and be happy to have it.

Let us know how things are progressing for you and your loads, and if I can be of any further assistance, then I would be more than happy to do so. I like to hear that a forum member has go his/her Luger up and running, if that is their goal.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by TheRomanhistorian

Thank you, gentlemen. I did load up a few round at about 1.173" or so (I loaded enough to fill a magazine and they chambered properly and ejected easily enough). I don't have any of the powders you mentioned and they're hard to get here (I haven't seen pistol powder in the Seattle area in a year and a bit).

Michael

Michael,

Be of good cheer!!!!

3.7grs of Bullseye is a super accurate load in the Luger, but a light target one. Start at about 3.6 grs. and go up to about 3.9 grs. looking for your most accurate load with your 124 gr. bullet.

Accurate? Seven touching at 25 yards held over a sand bag!!!!!!!!

Powders, well, some types are finally trickling in. I guess Obama has stopped dumping all of our powder in the ocean, for the time being, anyway!?!?!?!?

Sieger

[TheRomanhistorian]

Originally Posted by rhuff

In your original post you stated that you had acquired Unique Powder and wanted some assistance in developing 9mm loads with said Unique Powder. That is why I responded the way that I did, trying to offer you some assistance.

Had you ask what powders work well in 9mm cases and their load data, then I would have responded differently, as there are many pistol powders out there that will function well in 9mm brass......you just can't find/purchase them. These days, if you have pistol powder in your hand, then you are ahead of the game, rather that suggesting using "pie in the sky" pistol powders that just aren't available for purchasing, at least not to me in my area. Hopefully this will correct itself soon, but right now, one uses what one has and be happy to have it.

Let us know how things are progressing for you and your loads, and if I can be of any further assistance, then I would be more than happy to do so. I like to hear that a forum member has go his/her Luger up and running, if that is their goal.

rhuff, sorry, I hope I didn't give the appearance I did not appreciate your information, too (I thought I had and I'm grateful for your original thoughts) and I'm developing my load along your lines. I wish I could get other powders but I'm stuck with just Bullseye and Unique and only 80% of a 1 lb canister for each. I was hoping to get a line on more from a local who seems to have stockpiled and is offering me a pound of Bullseye and Unique each at $39 per canister. Double what I used to pay but, well, I do need the spare powder. In hindsight I should have gotten 115 grain bullets as that would be easier (and cheaper) but my local supplier was out.

The only other powder I have left is 3 canisters of Trail Boss but I doubt that'll function a 9mm at all!

I'm trying 4.9 grains of Unique and 5.0 grains of Unique this weekend per your suggestions and Sieger's. Trying to establish a base line load and then see if they'll even function the pistol properly.

[rhuff]

Michael,

I did not think for a moment that you did not appreciate the information I offered to you. That post was not directed in your direction. I have tried the fast burners like Bullseye and Red Dot powder in the 9mm brass for my Lugers. I can make them work, but the results do not meet my requirements. This info concerns MY LUGERS, and does not mean that these fast powders will not work in your Luger. This is a trial and error type endeavor, but is also part of the fun of handloading. Once you hit upon "the load" for your Luger, you have the satisfaction of achievment....anyway, I do.

I firmly believe that you will be wasting your time with any trials with Trail Boss Powder in 9mm brass. I use it a lot in the old large black powder cases, but it was never designed for a high pressure round, and it does NOT play well if compressed.

Let us know how things work out for your loads.

[JD]

Michael,

If you need it, I'll GIVE you a pound of Bullseye. There is no reason that you should have to pay $39 for a pound of Bullseye as that's simply outrageous. If you need it, I can drop off a one pound can at Pinto's for you and you can pick it up from there, just let me know....

[TheRomanhistorian]

rhuff, whew. I'm going to test out my loads this weekend and keep you all informed. I use Trail Boss for my .455 Webley revolvers and it's a niche powder for me but a useful niche powder for the reasons you mention. I wish the powder situation were so much better but, as a friend used to say, 'It is what it is' and at least the Unique will get a workout!


JD, that's most generous of you! Please, allow me to do something for you in exchange as that is too kind! PM incoming.

[TheRomanhistorian]

I only made 4 rounds to test at 5.0 grains with 124 grain Hornady FMJ bullets. They worked well and they actually functioned the hold-open of my chromed 1918 all-matching P-08. They fit in the magazine, chambered fine, fired well, worked the action, and the toggle stayed locked upon after the last one. I might keep tinkering with the load but I was quite pleased. I had heard Unique was dirty but wow... Still, now it has a use!

Accuracy was hard to gauge given only 4 rounds and my not having been to the range in 2 and half months but the grouping was okay enough.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by TheRomanhistorian

I only made 4 rounds to test at 5.0 grains with 124 grain Hornady FMJ bullets. They worked well and they actually functioned the hold-open of my chromed 1918 all-matching P-08. They fit in the magazine, chambered fine, fired well, worked the action, and the toggle stayed locked upon after the last one. I might keep tinkering with the load but I was quite pleased. I had heard Unique was dirty but wow... Still, now it has a use!

Accuracy was hard to gauge given only 4 rounds and my not having been to the range in 2 and half months but the grouping was okay enough.

Hi,

If 5.0 worked well, I'd drop down to about 4.6 and test until the load just worked the hold open, as often, light loads are more accurate in a Luger.

Meanwhile, if you can load a full magazine of 8 and fire them all without a malfunction at 5.0, you know you are in the right range.

5.0 certainly is not a hot load of Unique in a 9mm.

For me, I enjoy shooting a Luger for accuracy. Before you can achieve that, however, you must eliminate malfunctions.

Sieger

[rhuff]

Michael,

Congrats on your first Luger loads with Unique!! Isn't it gratifying when a plan comes together? Unique, like many other powders will shoot "dirty" when loaded at lower level loads, and then clean up as you approach the upper end of the load range. You now have a load that you know will function for you and your Luger, so you have a good baseline.

You can now go in both directions from this load(up and down), and experiment with the results. The first requirement has been met, so experiment and have fun doing it.....that is what handloading is all about.

[TheRomanhistorian]

Thank you, gentlemen. This was quite fun and a foray into a new calibre for me (I scoured the range of all 9mm brass and my friend was happy to give me all of his). I'm going to work up 8 rounds at 4.6 or 4.7 grains and then 8 at 5.1.

Now the only problem is finding range time!

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by TheRomanhistorian

Thank you, gentlemen. This was quite fun and a foray into a new calibre for me (I scoured the range of all 9mm brass and my friend was happy to give me all of his). I'm going to work up 8 rounds at 4.6 or 4.7 grains and then 8 at 5.1.

Now the only problem is finding range time!

Hi,

I'd load one each at 4.6 ,4.7, 4.8, 4.9 to see which will activate the hold open device. After you have established your minimum, then start with loading full magazines to check for proper function.

Also, don't mix your brass, as this will affect your end results. I've used Winchester brass for the last 30 years or so, so all of my handloading data is consistent.

Unique will not burn cleanly in a 9mm, no mater how much you load. One thing to look for is whether or not the cases are sealing to the chamber walls. If the load is too light, and the case is not sealing, you will get black smokey goo on the sides of your fired cases. With proper sealing, only a hint of black smoke will cover the top of your cases, if that.

Let us know how you did at the range!


Sieger

[rhuff]

Originally Posted by Sieger

Hi,



Unique will not burn cleanly in a 9mm, no mater how much you load.


Sieger

We can just agree to disagree on this statement.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by rhuff

We can just agree to disagree on this statement.

Hi,

We all have our own experiences and this has been mine; however, this is one reason I'm so active on this site, to explore others' experiences with their Lugers.

If you want a sparkling clean case, try 6.2 grains of HS6 behind a 124 grain bullet; as this combination shoots so cleanly, that you may not be able to tell that you even fired the case! Accuracy, though excellent, is not as accurate as my 5.4 grain Power Pistol load, which has been the most accurate and consistent load of my 30 years of experience.


Sieger