Ventura, CA

Michael Zeleny · 09-06-2003, 03:57 AM

Is anyone going to the Ventura gun show?

Pete Ebbink · 09-08-2003, 10:21 PM

Hello Michael,

How about a show run-down, if you did attend...

Are there many luger sightings at the Ventura shows...?

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Michael Zeleny · 09-08-2003, 11:04 PM

The show was underwhelming. I saw a bunch of restored Mauser Lugers, a Krieghoff, a dished toggle American Eagle, a putative Imperial Navy, and a half dozen overpriced beaters with stories.

Dwight Gruber · 09-08-2003, 11:46 PM

Michael (or anybody else posting gun show reports),

If possible, try to get gun details and prices. We can all see what Luger prices are on the internet, these reports have the potential to give a sort of regional reality check of what is really out there and what they can actually be bought for.

--Dwight

--Dwight

Michael Zeleny · 09-09-2003, 03:59 AM

The restored Mausers were priced at $1,100. The restored Krieghoff was about $3,200; likewise the dished toggle American Eagle and the alleged Imperial Navy, lightly pitted, on offer from another vendor. But for the privilege to view an "actual 1906 U.S. test Luger" in the original 7.65 caliber, I would have been sorely disappointed.

John Sabato · 09-09-2003, 11:35 AM

Michael, did you happen to get the serial number of the AE Test Eagle? Just curious to know if it already appears on the compiled list of these guns that is in our member gallery...

Failing getting the number, do you know who was offering the AE so that the number could be obtained?

Mike Jones · 09-09-2003, 12:47 PM

John,

I think the gun Michael is talking about is a gun I own. It is serial number 98 from the December 1905 German trials of the new model.

Regards,
Mike

John Sabato · 09-09-2003, 01:33 PM

Mike is the whole serial number 98? or are there preceding numbers and these are the last two digits...

That would fall far from being within the serial number list for a U.S. Trials Test gun??? Is Michael Zeleny confused on the type? or perhaps talking about a different gun?

I just wanted to know if the gun already appears on Ron Wood's list in the Member Gallery or if it should be added.

thanks,

JS

Mike Jones · 09-09-2003, 01:42 PM

John,

The serial number is 98, It would not appear on Ron's list as this is a 1906 model. Also it is not a US Test gun. It is marked Versuchsbaumuster 1905 (Trial/Test Sample 1905).

Regards,
Mike

John Sabato · 09-09-2003, 04:46 PM

thanks for the clarification Mike.

lugerholsterrepair · 09-09-2003, 10:14 PM

Mike, you say it is marked Versuchsbaumuster. Is this written out or abreviated? Where is it marked? Thanks, Jerry Burney

Mike Jones · 09-10-2003, 03:15 PM

Jerry,

It is written out in two line panel on the right side of the receiver.

Regards,
Mike

Edward Tinker · 09-10-2003, 03:37 PM

Mike sent me these pictures around last winter of this gun, hope you don't mind Mike?

Ed

Mike Jones · 09-10-2003, 03:42 PM

Thanks,Ed I was going to ask you to do that.

Mike

PS The gun does not look as bad as the photos.

Edward Tinker · 09-10-2003, 04:02 PM

No, I held it at Reno and looked it over for a bit and it is much nicer than the pictures show.

Wouldn't mind having it for my collection {if I could afford it

}

Ed

lugerholsterrepair · 09-13-2003, 01:13 PM

Mike, Thanks, That is a beautiful piece and an unusual marking.

I have a 1917 Imperial Navy that Has a Giant V marked over the chamber and barell area with some small numbers below it. Obviously period and German. I was wondering if it was a test pistol to test the truncated cone bullet vrs the round nose known to be in favor of the Allies. Jerry Burney

Pete Ebbink · 09-13-2003, 01:39 PM

Could the translation of "versuchbaumuster" also mean "design pattern"...?

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Ron Wood · 09-13-2003, 02:10 PM

Versuch = trial
Bau = build
Muster = sample

Pete Ebbink · 09-13-2003, 02:16 PM

Thanks, Ron, I am such an idiot with German...

I need to sponsor a little vacation for you to come out to CA-State and put you to work on my growing stack of luger books written in German... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Ron Wood · 09-13-2003, 02:52 PM

I know just enough German to get by. Full and correct translations are more the forte of guys like tacfoley and some of our excellent English speaking German members.

09-06-2003, 03:57 AM	#1
Michael Zeleny Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 525 Thanks: 129 Thanked 139 Times in 76 Posts	Ventura, CA Is anyone going to the Ventura gun show? __________________ Michael Zeleny@post.harvard.edu -- http://larvatus.livejournal.com/ -- 7576 Willow Glen Road, Los Angeles, CA 90046 -- 323.363.1860 All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett

09-08-2003, 11:04 PM	#3
Michael Zeleny Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 525 Thanks: 129 Thanked 139 Times in 76 Posts	The show was underwhelming. I saw a bunch of restored Mauser Lugers, a Krieghoff, a dished toggle American Eagle, a putative Imperial Navy, and a half dozen overpriced beaters with stories. __________________ Michael Zeleny@post.harvard.edu -- http://larvatus.livejournal.com/ -- 7576 Willow Glen Road, Los Angeles, CA 90046 -- 323.363.1860 All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett

09-09-2003, 03:59 AM	#5
Michael Zeleny Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 525 Thanks: 129 Thanked 139 Times in 76 Posts	The restored Mausers were priced at $1,100. The restored Krieghoff was about $3,200; likewise the dished toggle American Eagle and the alleged Imperial Navy, lightly pitted, on offer from another vendor. But for the privilege to view an "actual 1906 U.S. test Luger" in the original 7.65 caliber, I would have been sorely disappointed. __________________ Michael Zeleny@post.harvard.edu -- http://larvatus.livejournal.com/ -- 7576 Willow Glen Road, Los Angeles, CA 90046 -- 323.363.1860 All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett

09-09-2003, 11:35 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Michael, did you happen to get the serial number of the AE Test Eagle? Just curious to know if it already appears on the compiled list of these guns that is in our member gallery... Failing getting the number, do you know who was offering the AE so that the number could be obtained? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-09-2003, 01:33 PM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Mike is the whole serial number 98? or are there preceding numbers and these are the last two digits... That would fall far from being within the serial number list for a U.S. Trials Test gun??? Is Michael Zeleny confused on the type? or perhaps talking about a different gun? I just wanted to know if the gun already appears on Ron Wood's list in the Member Gallery or if it should be added. thanks, JS __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-08-2003, 10:21 PM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Michael, How about a show run-down, if you did attend... Are there many luger sightings at the Ventura shows...? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

09-08-2003, 11:46 PM	#4
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,901 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,316 Times in 430 Posts	Michael (or anybody else posting gun show reports), If possible, try to get gun details and prices. We can all see what Luger prices are on the internet, these reports have the potential to give a sort of regional reality check of what is really out there and what they can actually be bought for. --Dwight --Dwight

09-09-2003, 12:47 PM	#7
Mike Jones User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Torrance, Calif. Posts: 67 Thanks: 10 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	John, I think the gun Michael is talking about is a gun I own. It is serial number 98 from the December 1905 German trials of the new model. Regards, Mike

09-09-2003, 01:42 PM	#9
Mike Jones User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Torrance, Calif. Posts: 67 Thanks: 10 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	John, The serial number is 98, It would not appear on Ron's list as this is a 1906 model. Also it is not a US Test gun. It is marked Versuchsbaumuster 1905 (Trial/Test Sample 1905). Regards, Mike

09-09-2003, 04:46 PM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	thanks for the clarification Mike. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-09-2003, 10:14 PM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,931 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Mike, you say it is marked Versuchsbaumuster. Is this written out or abreviated? Where is it marked? Thanks, Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-10-2003, 03:15 PM	#12
Mike Jones User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Torrance, Calif. Posts: 67 Thanks: 10 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Jerry, It is written out in two line panel on the right side of the receiver. Regards, Mike

09-10-2003, 03:37 PM	#13
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,932 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,528 Times in 2,091 Posts	Mike sent me these pictures around last winter of this gun, hope you don't mind Mike? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-10-2003, 03:42 PM	#14
Mike Jones User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Torrance, Calif. Posts: 67 Thanks: 10 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks,Ed I was going to ask you to do that. Mike PS The gun does not look as bad as the photos.

09-10-2003, 04:02 PM	#15
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,932 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,528 Times in 2,091 Posts	No, I held it at Reno and looked it over for a bit and it is much nicer than the pictures show. Wouldn't mind having it for my collection {if I could afford it } Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-13-2003, 01:13 PM	#16
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,931 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Mike, Thanks, That is a beautiful piece and an unusual marking. I have a 1917 Imperial Navy that Has a Giant V marked over the chamber and barell area with some small numbers below it. Obviously period and German. I was wondering if it was a test pistol to test the truncated cone bullet vrs the round nose known to be in favor of the Allies. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-13-2003, 01:39 PM	#17
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Could the translation of "versuchbaumuster" also mean "design pattern"...? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

09-13-2003, 02:10 PM	#18
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,177 Times in 1,702 Posts	Versuch = trial Bau = build Muster = sample __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-13-2003, 02:16 PM	#19
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks, Ron, I am such an idiot with German... I need to sponsor a little vacation for you to come out to CA-State and put you to work on my growing stack of luger books written in German... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

09-13-2003, 02:52 PM	#20
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,177 Times in 1,702 Posts	I know just enough German to get by. Full and correct translations are more the forte of guys like tacfoley and some of our excellent English speaking German members. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction