Authentic Kreigsmarine G-date?

Likelugers2 · 06-02-2010, 09:40 PM

Hello, seeking expert opinions on the authenicity of this possible gem. I have received some opinions that the magazines are no good. What say you?

EricW · 06-02-2010, 11:35 PM

For reference, a faked Navy G Date was picked apart on Jan's forum some time ago, with good comparison photos...
http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=21332

I'm no expert, but I'd expect the spare mag to have a "+" ? And, the stick eagles look different (right one looks wider?) (edit: and as Tom points out in the post below, stick eages are not correct for G Dates)

The eagle over m on the strap doesn't look good.

Looking forward to the expert opinions... I'm always learning too.

tharpo · 06-02-2010, 11:37 PM

I believe G Date magazines should have the droop winged eagle acceptance stamps. Such as DE/63, DE/211, and DE/154. Your straight winged eagle/63 mags in the "d" block would be consistent with 1938.

Frank · 06-03-2010, 12:52 AM

Like Lugers, I would run away from this one.

The magazines are all wrong. There should be indications of a spare "+" below the number ans a "X" after the Navy Number.

Tom is correct with respect to the Waffenamt Marks. Should be DE/211 or DE/154.

The front grip strap marking is also wrong.

RUN, RUN, RUN!!!!!

EricW · 06-03-2010, 01:03 AM

Likelugers,

I'm curious about the stamp on the left side of the barrel. Do you have a photo of it?

spartacus38 · 06-03-2010, 02:38 AM

Likelugers2:

Before spending alot of money on expensive lugers,buy a copy of Third Reich Lugers or

Axis Pistols and take the time to study and learn.

Bob

sheepherder · 06-03-2010, 07:53 AM

The "wings" of the chicken on the backstrap (or is it the frontstrap?) are not symmetrical...but it is surprising to me that the lines are so well defined, cartouche and letters/numbers...this is a curved surface; stamps would not work, they must all be engraved, probably by mallet & chisel...maybe by a Dremel-like tool...It is art of its kind, but probably not something anyone other than a police agency would want to collect...

Edit: On the magazine markings...I am no expert of any kind, but these are the first mag marks I've seen that are so nicely spaced; so evenly stamped as to depth; so level and perfect...Most I've looked at are rather sloppily done...Like the maker (or marker) didn't want to expend time & effort on something that would likely be thrown away if used...an expendable commodity, not a treasure to be cherished...The two bottoms just look too perfect...but they sure look nice!...

...Just my thoughts...

fred p · 06-03-2010, 08:15 AM

should a G date have an s/42 toggle? I am just doing some studying here so don't be too hard on me.

Likelugers2 · 06-03-2010, 08:32 AM

Here are a few more shots. It is the front grip strap that is marked. There are no marks on the left side of the barrel , only the eagle on the right side-hard to get a good shot of.

EricW · 06-03-2010, 10:56 AM

fred p: S/42 toggle is correct for a G Date.

Likelugers2: it's possibly not even the original barrel... the stamp (if that one is correct) on the right side I believe should be rotated clockwise 90 degrees, and I believe there should be a 211 or W154 stamp on the left side (I was just curious if it had an incorrect S92 stamp on the left side as seen on another faked KM G Date).

Norme · 06-03-2010, 11:38 AM

I think Eric is right, the barrel is a replacement. It is missing the bore gauge marking. Regards

fred p · 06-03-2010, 01:14 PM

thanks Eric. I have much to learn....

Likelugers2 · 06-03-2010, 11:12 PM

At least the grips are good!

Thank you for all your input. Thankfully the auctioneer is taking the gun back for a full refund. Live and learn! Thanks again.

Dave

mrerick · 06-04-2010, 11:12 AM

It may be the camera angle, but I believe I can see where the normally curved edges of the magazine buttons on both have been ground down. They appear flatter and more squared off.

It's actually very helpful to have pictures of altered magazine bottoms for future reference.

Has anyone every put together a book that shows the characteristics of altered Lugers?

Glad you got this returned and straightened out.

Marc

06-02-2010, 09:40 PM	#1
Likelugers2 User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 26 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Authentic Kreigsmarine G-date? Hello, seeking expert opinions on the authenicity of this possible gem. I have received some opinions that the magazines are no good. What say you? Attached Thumbnails

06-02-2010, 11:35 PM	#2
EricW User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: CA, USA Posts: 62 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	For reference, a faked Navy G Date was picked apart on Jan's forum some time ago, with good comparison photos... http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=21332 I'm no expert, but I'd expect the spare mag to have a "+" ? And, the stick eagles look different (right one looks wider?) (edit: and as Tom points out in the post below, stick eages are not correct for G Dates) The eagle over m on the strap doesn't look good. Looking forward to the expert opinions... I'm always learning too. __________________ I'm looking for a D suffix DE154 G Date mag. The closer to #457d the better PM me if you have one you are willing to sell, trade, or if you have a lead Last edited by EricW; 06-03-2010 at 12:42 AM.

06-03-2010, 01:03 AM	#5
EricW User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: CA, USA Posts: 62 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Likelugers, I'm curious about the stamp on the left side of the barrel. Do you have a photo of it? __________________ I'm looking for a D suffix DE154 G Date mag. The closer to #457d the better PM me if you have one you are willing to sell, trade, or if you have a lead

06-03-2010, 08:15 AM	#8
fred p User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: N.C. usa Posts: 86 Thanks: 10 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	should a G date have an s/42 toggle? I am just doing some studying here so don't be too hard on me. __________________ if it's broke I'll either fix it or I'll fix it so no one else can fix it.

06-03-2010, 08:32 AM	#9
Likelugers2 User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 26 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here are a few more shots. It is the front grip strap that is marked. There are no marks on the left side of the barrel , only the eagle on the right side-hard to get a good shot of. Attached Thumbnails

06-02-2010, 11:37 PM	#3
tharpo Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 116 Thanked 382 Times in 157 Posts	I believe G Date magazines should have the droop winged eagle acceptance stamps. Such as DE/63, DE/211, and DE/154. Your straight winged eagle/63 mags in the "d" block would be consistent with 1938.

06-03-2010, 12:52 AM	#4
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Like Lugers, I would run away from this one. The magazines are all wrong. There should be indications of a spare "+" below the number ans a "X" after the Navy Number. Tom is correct with respect to the Waffenamt Marks. Should be DE/211 or DE/154. The front grip strap marking is also wrong. RUN, RUN, RUN!!!!!

06-03-2010, 02:38 AM	#6
spartacus38 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Lake Tahoe,CA. Posts: 695 Thanks: 0 Thanked 70 Times in 56 Posts	Likelugers2: Before spending alot of money on expensive lugers,buy a copy of Third Reich Lugers or Axis Pistols and take the time to study and learn. Bob

06-03-2010, 07:53 AM	#7
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	The "wings" of the chicken on the backstrap (or is it the frontstrap?) are not symmetrical...but it is surprising to me that the lines are so well defined, cartouche and letters/numbers...this is a curved surface; stamps would not work, they must all be engraved, probably by mallet & chisel...maybe by a Dremel-like tool...It is art of its kind, but probably not something anyone other than a police agency would want to collect... Edit: On the magazine markings...I am no expert of any kind, but these are the first mag marks I've seen that are so nicely spaced; so evenly stamped as to depth; so level and perfect...Most I've looked at are rather sloppily done...Like the maker (or marker) didn't want to expend time & effort on something that would likely be thrown away if used...an expendable commodity, not a treasure to be cherished...The two bottoms just look too perfect...but they sure look nice!... ...Just my thoughts...

06-03-2010, 10:56 AM	#10
EricW User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: CA, USA Posts: 62 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	fred p: S/42 toggle is correct for a G Date. Likelugers2: it's possibly not even the original barrel... the stamp (if that one is correct) on the right side I believe should be rotated clockwise 90 degrees, and I believe there should be a 211 or W154 stamp on the left side (I was just curious if it had an incorrect S92 stamp on the left side as seen on another faked KM G Date). __________________ I'm looking for a D suffix DE154 G Date mag. The closer to #457d the better PM me if you have one you are willing to sell, trade, or if you have a lead

06-03-2010, 11:38 AM	#11
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	I think Eric is right, the barrel is a replacement. It is missing the bore gauge marking. Regards

06-03-2010, 01:14 PM	#12
fred p User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: N.C. usa Posts: 86 Thanks: 10 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	thanks Eric. I have much to learn.... __________________ if it's broke I'll either fix it or I'll fix it so no one else can fix it.

06-03-2010, 11:12 PM	#13
Likelugers2 User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 26 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	At least the grips are good! Thank you for all your input. Thankfully the auctioneer is taking the gun back for a full refund. Live and learn! Thanks again. Dave

06-04-2010, 11:12 AM	#14
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	It may be the camera angle, but I believe I can see where the normally curved edges of the magazine buttons on both have been ground down. They appear flatter and more squared off. It's actually very helpful to have pictures of altered magazine bottoms for future reference. Has anyone every put together a book that shows the characteristics of altered Lugers? Glad you got this returned and straightened out. Marc